Feeling broken - 17 mo has never properly slept through.

[Penguin13]

No point to this post really other than to vent my frustration safely as I really just want to scream at the top of my lungs 'why won't you just f*cking sleeeeeep!' (and yes I know it isn't her fault and she isn't doing it on purpose but god it is hard)

You would think that I would be a master of dealing with sleep frustration by now since DD1 didn't sleep through till 18 months. In the early days of DD2's arrival I couldn't believe my luck - this was what having a sleepy newborn was like, the myths were true. She actually napped and sleep got gradually better and longer stretches.... And yet.... Somehow I have still managed to f*ck it all up and DD2 is, if anything, worse now than DD1 and looks set to beat her record by quite some margin.

I don't get how she is still so dependent on feeding at night when I have never fed her to sleep at bedtime and she goes off by herself no problem. So much for self-settling being the answer to something something. I had started trying the Jay Gordon method of night weaning (slightly adapted since we don't co-sleep) but never got as far as even attempting the settling completely without feeding as after a couple of nights success on reduced feeds she started screaming full pelt for half an hour or more, albeit with me constantly by her side reassuring her by my presence, and needed holding to sleep which derailed the idea of her going back to sleep by herself. I didn't want to push it any more than that as she was really inconsolable but additionally she shares a room with her 3.5 yo sister who at least sleeps like a log but was starting to be disturbed after that length and volume of screaming. I had at least dramatically cut down night feeds but somehow through a combination of teething (I think but who bloody knows? ) and illness I am more or less back to square one and the last few nights she has, at best, been waking every two hours, sometimes every hour.

I am so tired, irritable and my anxiety is through the roof with the lack of downtime. She has literally never slept a proper full night. We have had maybe three random one off nights of a seven hour stretch but always followed up with a shit night.

Sorry I know this is a pointless moan and no doubt it is all my fault for allowing her to develop learned hunger at night, but it is really hard at the moment and I could do with some words of encouragement/a hand hold.

Hi penguin. I have no advice but just wanted to say you haven't fucked it up and it's not your fault.
You must be shattered. My DS is 13 months and the same, so I can only imagine how you must feel after 17 months (and the second time around)!!

I have to travel quite a bit with work, so every couple of weeks or so I get one or two nights in a hotel. I miss him terribly but I go to bed really early and sleep for 12 hours and I always find that resets me for a few weeks and makes the wake ups much more bearable. Is there anyway you could do someone similar? Even just sleep at a friend's or uninterrupted in a spare room or something while DH does the whole night?

She will sleep through when she is ready. I know that's not much help, but i found once I accepted that there's nothing I can do it got a bit easier x

Thanks radio really appreciate you taking the time to post. I have to go on a four day hen do in Spain soon (no choice as I am a bm) and I think I might actually get some sleep! I am worried about how DD (and DH!) will cope but I am also hoping that it could be a turning point for DD relying on me in the night. Seriously envious of your regular nights away! We don't really have family nearby apart from SIL who has 1 yo twins and a 4yo so maybe not the ideal place for a sleep retreat I did once when I got desperate with DD1 have a weekend away but only got one night of sleep as I was disturbed by late night revellers on my second night there! Was gutted! It still did help though and the mental break from worrying about DD's sleep was a real boost. Here's hoping that both of our little ones sleep through soon!

Ugh. Tonight has been particularly brutal.. She has made it one sleep cycle at times and I haven't even made it back to sleep between wakes. Unfortunately it's her dad's turn to lie-in today as well

I hear you! I have twins the same age and one or other or both wakes up most nights. Frustratingly we do have the occasional good night so we know they can do it!
Don't know what to do as they share a room and disturb each other if we don't pick them up straight away. They often end up sleeping on us downstairs while we try desperately to stay awake.
No advice I'm afraid but sending solidarity and sleep vibes!

I could have written your thread title, my son’s the same age and has always been a bad sleeper! He is breastfed too (no signs of stopping and I plan to continue until 2 or maybe longer depending how it’s going).

There is hope though, we have been making progress (touching all the wood). I sought advice from various sources including a friend who is a child psychologist. Basically you have to go cold turkey on the night feeds. I always preferred gentle methods so was reluctant to do it but it’s actual kinder on the child in that it’s very clear and consistent so they will understand more quickly that they’re not getting milk. They cry A LOT at first and it’s horrible but luckily in our case it didn’t last long. A couple of nights with lots of long crying episodes and then things improved very quickly. Everyone is better rested as a result. We’ve had times when it’s got bad again (illness, teething, reflux flare) and I have sometimes fed him in the night. But then had to cut the feeds again. It is short term pain for long term gain. I have been at breaking point many times and I am a much better mother when I’ve had more sleep.

Could your older DC sleep elsewhere for a few nights while you make a start?

While you’re on your hen do would be a good time to do but it will be hard for your partner to have difficult nights and look after them both on his own the whole weekend, so ideally he would have a bit of help from grandparents.

DH and i only managed it by doing shifts at night and taking it in turns to lie in and nap during the day.

I feel your pain

My ds has his second birthday last month and still doesn't sleep through. He doesn't need feeding in the night, just wakes and needs settling by one of us.

We've given up stressing about it and just accept now that he can't sleep through. We take each night in turn so that on alternate nightss we get a bit more rest.

Penguin, you need to give up on the idea of DH having regular lie ins. It is you that us up all night, so if he is getting chunk of sleep whilst you feed, you need most of the lie ins.

I think it also time to consider cold turkey for night feeds- it may not help with the sleeping, but it does mean that DH can do night wakes - and so get half the lie ins!!!

Ds1 still doesn't sleep properly, but at least he is now old enough to read, and even get his own breakfast at weekends. My sleep is still royally fucked, and I'm regularly awake from 3-5am, with the alarm going off at 5,30 (yawn)

Good luck - sleep deprivation is a form of torture for a reason

Fist bumps of solidarity all round. snuggly you are a legend to be doing this with twins. My SIL at least had one twin who slept through very early on (naturally the one that her DH was dealing with ) but having them tag team you must be so tough.

You know what Name? I don't even feel that bad for DH getting to deal with wakes given that I have been dealing with 99.9% of wakes since forever. He seems to be under the impression that because he stirs when she wakes, before rolling over and going back to sleep, that he knows what I am going through It is obviously difficult for him to do the wakes when she screams for my milk, but she doesn't always need a feed and he seems to have stopped even considering that he could offer to help. And of course despite me doing all the wakes somehow the lie-ins are split evenly... I actually think it might not be as bad if she knows I am not there. We had one night away in London and granny had the kids and although she did wake she wasn't screaming for hours or anything, I guess because she knew I wasn't there so yelling miiiiiilk insistently wasn't an option.

I am with you there. Maybe have had two nights unbroken sleep in 18 months and I stopped the night feeds several months ago. Am up about 4 times a night on average sometimes it is a quick shushing back to sleep but other times it's a half hour of patting , lying next to cot etc till.fully back. If anything things seem to be getting worse , have tried gentle approaches and also just leaving to cry for a while but can't seem to get her to learn to self settle...really hope we turn a corner soon . ..it really does impact on your daily functioning . Does your other half get up in the night ? Of not I would be suggesting that he needs to forego a lie in until you start to get a bit less unbroken sleep. After all if he is getting a full 6 hours sleep everyday then he can survive without a lie in .

“And of course despite me doing all the wakes somehow the lie-ins are split evenly”

Yeah sorry but you’ve been a complete mug there!

When I was doing all/most of the wakings, DH would always get up with DS so I could lie in.

We have always tried to share the wakings as much as possible (although more fell to me because of breastfeeding, after DS stopped needing so many night feeds DH usually tried to settle DS first)

Even then the exhaustion and resentment has caused a lot of arguments, so I don’t know how you haven’t murdered your “D”H by now tbh!!

Thanks Penguin. To be honest sleep deprivation is horrible whether it's caused by one baby or two! At least it means dh has to help but that often means neither of us sleeps well but one of us still has to get up early with them. We had a really bad night last night. DH did the 2-5 shift so I've got up early and sent him back to bed.
We have made things worse by picking them up too quickly so they don't disturb the other one.

Hi OP. This sounds like torture. Im seriously impressed that you’ve managed this for so long, I would not have been able to.

Here is what I did. Some don’t approve of this method but I am firmly of the view that the whole family (including DD) has benefited from having proper sleep.

I went cold turkey on night feeds at 7.5 months. I didn’t believe that DD needed it any more and guessed that, if she did, I’d know very soon because my strategy would fail.

We combined this with starting controlled crying. I stayed away because I was the source of food and DD returned to settle every 3 minutes. No picking up unless she was hysterical - just gentle reassurance in her cot. There were two long periods of wakefulness but DD eventually fell back to sleep. I’m not going to lie, it wasn’t an enjoyable night.

The next morning DD was happy and affectionate. We had a normal day together. The following night we were gritting our teeth to do this again but we didn’t need to because she slept right through for the first time ever and, aside from sleep regression and illness, has done ever since.

It is ok to think of yourself in this, because as a parent, it is important that you are emotionally well. Moreover, children need to learn to sleep well because they need restorative sleep for their development.

Could your DD1 sleep elsewhere for a couple of nights if you try this? Perhaps you could take her away on a mini break while DH cracks it, returning during the day for family time.

I expect that some here will say that they have tried this and it hasn’t worked. I can’t comment on that because I haven’t been in their shoes. I just want to share what worked for us because I have been where you are (albeit not for as long as you) and it was spirit-crushingly hard.

Good luck

Slight drip feed name but it is slightly more complicated as DH is on a load of meds for a congenital heart condition, most of which have tiredness as a side effect, so I feel mean not giving him a rest as well. At the moment though I do feel it is unfair. It was easier when DD was only waking once or twice but I need to have a word about how things are now.

My 3 year old still gets up in the night. My 15 month old does too. I thought it was quite normal. I have had the odd 5 hour stretch since 3 year old born. Everyone on here seems to think that's wildly unusual?

When I night weaned my 3 year old (when he was 18m) I started by offering water instead. I'm doing similar with my 15 month old now, sometimes he wakes up screaming and a quick drink settles him quickly, although sometimes he just wants milk. I think offering nothing and patting them is unfair as often they are thirsty.

Hopefully this offers some hope for you. My 2.5 year old has always fed all night long and is still often fed to sleep but sometime over the few months he stopped feeding in the night, just needing one resettle and now he mostly sleeps through despite being fed to sleep a lot of the time. I thought it would never happen! We didn't do anything at all, I kept wondering about night weaning but never had the energy. Sometimes it is best to accept the situation or it becomes too stressful. Have you found 'Sleep is for the weak' - you aren't alone!

As an aside, my eldest didn't sleep through until much later after we had sorted out some dietary stuff so that is worth considering if there are any other issues.

It won't last forever even though it feels like it will!

17 month old here too and loves night time milk!! I've tried watering it down, giving small amounts, does well for a few a nights then wanting lots of food again! No idea what to do!!

Thanks Birthday. Congratulations on having a mostly sleeping child now DD does have cmpa but this is mostly under control although it definitely caused issues with her sleep in the past. It is another reason why DD is so attached to bf I think, I haven't been able to wean her onto the bottle for example as she has oat milk but it was introduced quite late and it took ages for her to take a reasonable amount.

Thanks for the advice stringer my upcoming trip away seems like it would be the time to go cold turkey on night milk as she doesn't really like the bottle.

I could write the exact same post! Except DD 2 is 18 months old (also CMPA). I don't feel able to night wean her as her congenital heart defects mean she struggled to gain weight, so if she needs the extra calories i don't want to remove them forcibly. But more recently i don't think she is waking for the food, more the comfort. It's so hard when they can't tell you.
Also can't go cold turkey as we're living with my parents and she wakes them which isn't fair on them. Although 4 adults in the house and I deal with all wake ups 😴

DD used to sleep like this, and the silent reflux from her CMPA definitely made a difference to her ability to sleep well. It's a killer, you have my complete sympathy.

DS had/has CMPA and silent reflux too. Clearly there is a theme here!

Kipper either they do some night wakings or they put up with the crying while you might wean! Fwiw silicone ear plugs are pretty effective so you could buy them some

night wean not might wean!

Oh penguin I know how you feel. My first didn't sleep through till she was two and second just before she turned two. First one stopped feeding in the night at 6 months Second around 20 months. I have spent ALOT of timing reading about baby sleep and actually a lot of people suggest that 2 is when they should start to sleep through. It's just hard when you've had it back to back.

I survived by napping on weekends when DH was around and with a lot of coffee. Hang on in there but don't feel like you've 'caused' this or you're alone. It's more normal than you think