Ok do you think this might work? Or if you've tried it and it didn't please let me know...

[TheGoddessBlossom]

2.9 year old DS1 wakes at 5.30am every morning. It is harsh to say the least. He wakes up his baby brother with his shouting.

He sleeps for 2 hours at lunchtime (because he is so tired by then), and if he doesn't have this sleep he is unbearable all afternoon. He goes to bed early (6.45pm) for the same reason.

Have I got this into a vicious circle situation? Do you think he wakes early cos of early night/long day sleep, or is it just his internal clock? He has black out blind, and did this all through the winter to so it's not birds or light mornings.

Am thinking of gritting my teeth, foregoing daytime sleep (sob) and moving bedtime to 7pm for a significant period, say 2 weeks. Do you think if it was going to make a difference it would do so in that time frame? Or am I mad to give up the only break in the day I get??

What do you think??????

Thanks,

Bloss

xx

If he needs the daytime nap I would let him have it and move the bedtime to 7-7.30pm. If that doesn't work after a couple of weeks then give up the nap. It seems a lot to stop the nap and have a later bedtime all at once.

my ds2 does this - always has. Its a killer - I dropped the nap to, and moved bed time to 7.30 result - hestill wakes at 5.30 - I jst dont get any time to mysef in the day and now he WILL NOT nap during the day

ishe - yes that is my worst fear - that he gets used to not having the nap, stops having it and still wakes at 5.30am!!! Hmm, maybe I should count my blessings....

and if he does nap it is always around 3/4 which is a killer

My ds has been doing this and it's a nightmare. He used to sleep 7-7 and have about an hour nap during the day. He started refusing to sleep during the day and then getting up at 5!!! We have a light on a timer in ds's room that is set for 6.15. Whatever time he gets up, he has to stay in his room until the light comes on. He has responded to it really well so even though he wakes up before, he will just stay in there and play. We have a gate on his door so he can't come out. When we can, we try and get him to have a nap as he's averaging about 10 hrs a day at the moment which is effecting his behaviour. When we can we'll get him down at about 12ish and only let him sleep for an hour if we can get him to sleep (which isn't very often) We then have to make sure he's occupied in the afternoon with regular breaks for quiet rest points and a couple of snacks so he's got plenty of energy. If he hasn't had a nap I bring his bedtime forward and we have a strict 5.45 toys away and only books and quiet activites allowed to try and calm him down. If he's had a nap, bedtime is closer till 7.30. Then its a case of an earliesh night for us!!!

i agree with flower; move bedtime first and see if that makes any difference.

ds1 ditched his daytime naps himself. ds2, we stopped the naps (or banned any napping after late morning) coz he was/is a nightmare to get to bed at bedtime if he has it. he adjusted fairly quickly IIRC. ds3 loves his nap and is more regular and sleeps for longer than the other 2 did... upshot being; you just have to stmble about in the dark really, till you find a solution that works for you and the partic child. helpful, isnt it??

hmm, thanks guys. I like the light in his room on a timer idea. I do say "It's still night time, all your friends are asleep, here's some books, pleeeeeeeease stay in your bed and read them" etc, and we have a stair gate on his door, but he just stands at it and yells for me. God I dread the sound of the door handle cranking, I'm awake before it happens now, listening for it.....

He will do 6.45pm till 5.30am, straight through and that plus his 2 hours in the day means he gets [quickly counts] 13 hours in the 24 period so I spose that's a good thing. Am hoping pre-school in September with a shorter nap might stretch things out a bit.

I (against all my parenting principles) ENSURE he sleeps in the day by making sure we are on the way home from somewhere in the car at 12.30am, even if we have just nipped up the shops. he always falls asleep and is easily transferable to his bed.

And yes, bed time for me if i want to be sane and not fight with my Dh all the time is 10pm no later.

It is so draining and like I say it is defo effecting ds's behaviour which is horrible. I think if you're managing to get him to sleep during the day then you're lucky cause at least he's getting his daily quota. It might be worth looking to gradually cut it from the 2 hours down to one and that might make a little bit of difference. Even if it's just going in 15 mins before he ususally wakes up and opening a window and the curtain a little bit. Then hopefully, as his day sleep lessens, the early mornings might decrease a bit.

oh yes, well preschool will change things probably. its a big routine and stimulation change for him...

i should follow your advice re adult bedtimes - its just so hard not to relish and savou those child free hours... (much as i adore my dc an all that )

god I know nappies. Then something decent comes on the telly at 10pm, or you've actually only just sat down and quite fancy painting your nails, or you just can't be bothered to go to bed yet, and the quota of sleep YOU get just goes down and down...add 4 gin and tonics into the mix and you've got yourself a real hellish start!

Should really cut the nap down. It's such bliss though having the two hours - tme for my own lunch and jobs, and then also time for a sit down if DS2 also deigns to have a kip. But will do it. [girds loins]

not just me then!!

know what you mean abotu daytime space... would be loath to lose it too... with ds2 we just had to bite the bullet and do it as bedtimes were just impossible (and he was one of 3 under 3 by then!!).
in your case though, i would honestly try to move bedtime first and see what happens before losing the daytime nap.
mind you, you'll prob need to start cutting it back a bit to get him used to less sleep for preschool...

good luck anyway!

Ds wakes at 5.30 at the moment and I ahve tried later bedtime. So we had evening with ankle biter getting on our nerves and he still woke at 5.30. I reckon some kids are just early risers and am trying to convince myself it'll be better in the winter

yeah exactly shopping bags, then you have to deal with no evening AND an early morning....

hahaha

dd1 woke at 5.15-5.30 for a loooooong time and let me tell you that nothing works it was just her body clock and we tried everything. in the end we just trained her not to leave her room until after six.
now she is four she tends to sleep a little later - 6.15 or so which I consider to be a great treat.
and dd2 is exactly the same except a little earlier and not yet trainable. she is awake between 5 and 5.30 every morning. it's grim isn't it? but as a general rule I would say that structured daytime naps lead to better night time sleep for my children.

My daughter was 3 about a month ago and she rarely goes to bed before 9pm otherwise she is up at 4am, with a later bed time she wakes up at about 7am normally. Never sleeps in the day though. We have figured out she naturally needs 9-10hrs sleep. Maybe a good idea to have a later bed time for your son. I think you feel better with as much sleep as you can get in the early morning rather than a break in the day-early morning is just a killer time to be awake. My daughter hasn't slept in the day other then if she is ill for about a year-18months - maybe he is just getting too much sleep in the day. It will probably be difficult to move his bedtime the first few days but hopefully he will stay asleep till 7am if you figure out how much sleep he really needs.

Also try the bunny alarm clock - reward him for staying quiet in his room till bunny wakes up - set bunny gradually later & later - seemed to work for us

well he has just point blank refused to have his sleep today and is plonked in front of Big Cook, having run him ragged in the sunshine all morning. Spells a trying afternoon for me... we will see if it makes any difference...!

Oh it's miserable isn't it!? We had one of those dream 7-7 sleepers first time round, so imagine our horror when dd2 turns out to be a 5am riser.

We go through little phases where she improves and goes through to 6.15, but they're usually short-lived and she reverts to type.

She's only 2.2, and already dropping her daytime nap (another horror, dd1 kept hers up till she was 3!). But it seems to make little difference to her morning sleep routine.

We also have the bunny clock - does it work - hollow laugh! She likes the idea, but doesn't seem to be persuaded back to sleep, or to stay quiet in her cot and play till bunny wakes.

And the worst thing of all is that when dd does get up she is MISERABLE and whinges constantly because she is tired. Aaagh.

So not a lot of help from this corner. My bed time is now 9.30pm, or if I'm feeling daring 10pm!

ah yes, I never thought I'd ever hear myself describe 6.15am as a lie in! Dh and I talk about sleeping in till 8am the way other people talk about luxury holidays and new cars ... "Imagine if we slept till 8am [wonderment emoticon] ... think how wonderful that would be...." etc

We just might be having a night without the kids on Saturday .... I am already fantasising about being under the duvet without a 2 year old bouncing on my head at 7am, let alone 8am, heaven forbid I might still be there at 9am!!

Try waking him from his nap after 45 mins. i wouldn't drop the nap yet as ime they sleep better if they nap well. hth