2 years 5 months and still not a full night

[fluffytowel]

My DS2 is unbelievable. He was 2 in February and I can count on one hand the amount of times he's slept more that 5 hours at a time.

He tries to copy his big brother (5) and is trying to be so fiercely independent that his tantrums are out of this world when he wants to do something he physically can't do yet (eg screw/ unscrew the lid of his juice cup). We have a Warning, time out, lose a toy, time out in bedroom, early bed behaviour chart in place and 3 family rules - listen to instructions, use manners, do not hit or kick. We obviously know he's 2 years old so don't expect anything near perfect (even with my 5 year old!) but he is generally a grumpy, bad tempered toddler 🙈 we are consistent with both of them. Only once has my 5 year old been on early bed so we don't escalate things in a downward spiral and they get treats and rewards when they've been good.

Bedtime we follow the same routine every night where we have quiet family time from 6-7 usually playing with toys in the boys room that they share, then they go for a shower (I don't have a bath), we get their jammies on and read a story then it's in to bed.

He was going through a stage of staying in bed and getting himself to sleep but has totally regressed and I don't know why. Last night he was still awake at 9:30pm! I follow the Supernanny routine of 1st time out of bed kisses and back, 2nd time more firmly back to bed and 3rd it's silence from then on. It worked before to get him back to bed but seems to be completely unsuccessful this time. His wakening during the night is getting worse and he will scream and scream for "Mummy" "bottle" "milk" again he was settling himself for a while but seems to have completely regressed. He used to be sleeping for between 7:30/8pm but would wake at 12:30, 3, 5 and then be up anytime from 6. Most of the time he would self settle after a while after a wee moan but lately he's just screaming. I have caved and given him milk purely because my 5 year old is in the same room and i don't want his sleep disturbed.

I work full time as a teacher and I'm completely running on empty!

Any ideas? Suggestions? Anything to get him to sleep?

We are outside loads (rain or shine) and he only has at most an hour nap some days. Other days no matter what I try he won't nap (my mum watches him while I work and says she finds him incredibly challenging as well and she's the worlds most patient person ever!)

Any advice would be great thanks in advance...

Also is there any other parents out there with a child same age that doesn't sleep?! Would be lovely to hear I'm not the only one struggling 😔

My almost 2 year old sleeps three hours at a time at most. It's exhausting. No answers but you are not alone. I'm keen to see what people suggest.

Thank you for your reply Onedaylikethis

Can I ask how's your LOs temperament? DS2 can be awful at times with anger and crying when he doesn't get what he wants and I put it all down to lack of sleep (though I might be completely wrong!) He hits, tries to stamp on toes, he will throw his blanket down and lie on the floor and scream cause he wants someone to pick it up. Right now he's on the kitchen floor flat out arms and legs going cause I won't let him near the boiling water his egg is cooking in 🙈🙈🙈

My DS1 was the most placid child ever and I know you never get 2 the same but I never expected this and hands up I'm struggling. My health visitor said that "some kids just don't like sleep" Thanks for that...

Maybe change your night time routine if it's not working? Kids sleep patterns usually change/evolve as they have growth spurts, could it be this? Maybe you need to change/adapt the routine to suit your toddler? They don't call it the terrible twos for nothing (said from bitter experience

Absolutely sisgal I contacted my health visitor to ask and as I said the response was "some kids don't sleep"

That might be well and true but I need more than 3-5 hours at this stage as it's been constant for almost 2 and a half years. I noticed that over he past month my skin has changed, my hair condition is terrible, my energy levels and just general personality has changed and it's all down to tiredness. Im not being the best mum I can be because of this and that's not fair on either of my boys or me.

I just need some good tried and tested ideas that I can implement so that's why I thought I'd try here to get some fresh ideas.

I’m not the best person to give advice as my nearly 2 year old rarely sleeps through. We have just implemented a gro clock. It seems to make going to sleep even worse as it gives off some light and DS just wants to keep saying night night to the star but that’s better than screaming at me! Then we are telling him overnight that star is still sleeping so it’s sleep time, which has gone fairly well and then in the morning that he has to wait for the sun - less successful!
At night we do bath, teeth, two books with a cup of milk (one on my lap and one in the cot) say night night to star. I have started letting him keep the milk cup until he goes to sleep then removing and replacing it with water.
No idea what out of this does or doesn’t work but you aren’t alone with the sleep.

Mine was like this at 2 and a half. Now at 3 and a bit he does sleep through most nights. He shares with his brother, not sure if this is a factor but he definitely likes not being left alone.
They do sort themselves out eventually but having had two non-sleepers in a row I totally sympathise.

Thanks for the posts to know I'm not alone! It's made me feel instantly so much better. Honestly was beginning to think I had failed miserably and I know that due to lack of sleep, working hours, keeping a house in (semi) order I'm just not me anymore.

Thanks everyone xx

My DD now 6 didn't sleep through until 3 1/2 - I was always so jealous of those people that had kids that slept through. We had a great routine and she was always in bed asleep by 7pm but she would wake every 4 hours wanting milk, it was only when I was on my knees desperate that I asked for the toddler health visitor to come & see me - she had a lot more experience with 3-4 year olds, she specialised in preschool children, she talked about the routine and basically told me to take a week off work and starting from night one when she woke refuse the milk, out a non spill cup on her bed and when she went to bed say to her 'if you wake int he night there is a drink of water there for you, you don't need to wake up mummy or daddy, have a drink and go back to sleep', I honestly thought it would be the worst week of my life - night one she whined, night two she only woke once from night 3 she slept through, it really was that easy & to this day I kick myself for not doing it earlier, she now sleeps for 14 hours straight some nights - I still wake up at 5.30am every damn morning......I wish I could change my routine!

I am not saying your child will be this easy but if you are finishing this week maybe start it the first week you are off, at least then you have the time off work, also could you maybe ask a relative to take your older son for a couple of nights or take both kids so you can get some rest?

put not out a non spill cup

Hi, I really feel for you. Long-term sleep deprivation is , quite literally, torture. My 3.5 year old is only sleeping through the night in the last few months. We tried the Gro clock about a year ago and it just didn't work. We were doing the back in bed multiple times a night, a la Supernanny, but I found it was just making us all exhausted. So we resorted to co-sleeping, which meant everyone got a full night's sleep.

But a few months ago, I started again with Gro clock, which she now loves and also spoke to her about how mummy needed more sleep. She now goes down really easily between 7.15 and 8, depending on tiredness levels, and I don't have to sit holding her hand anymore, I just sit outside the room and she's asleep in 10 mins. She sleeps through 3/7 nights until 6.30/7, and the other nights there is only one 30 second wake up when she wants to be tucked in again. I'm working on that one.

Hope some of this is a bit of help to you. It's such a tough time!

I like the idea always the pessimist but I don't know how my 5 year old would cope with this as they share a room. It would mean BF (not the boys father) sleeping downstairs on quite a small couch and he's still got work to get up for and my 5 year old in with me. Or 5 year old goes in the bed with him and I sleep in his but just worry then that DS2 will just be used to me being in the room.

I think that's the best option though that I need to go down. My 5 year old is no issues with sleep or anything so maybe I could ask my mum to keep him a few nights I could drop him round in his jammies and pick him up after breakfast and just power through. I'm in Scotland so finished already. Thanks for the advice xx

Thanks Mariemalade I'll pick up a gro clock today. He's pretty clued I'm so hopefully will understand it! Xx

That's hard with your bf there too. My husband was just kicked into another room, but I appreciate we're lucky we have the space. Maybe try Gro clock first before co sleeping. I also had mega bribes, bag of choc buttons if she slept until the sun came up on the Gro clock. I also started with a really early time of 5am on Gro clock and gradually pushed it out to 6.30 am. It meant she 'won' the first few times and then gradually got used to re-settling herself if she saw sun wasn't up yet. I think the milk should maybe be in a non spill cup in his bed, we use the Munchkin 360 cup that she cuddles next to!

My first dc was very placid and easy going and slept through from about 9 weeks old. I thought I had this parenting thing sussed then dc 2 came along. He's was just like your dc. Very strong willed and didn't sleep through until he was 3 1/2. I tired absolutely everything but he just wouldn't sleep longer than 2 1/2 hours at a time. I remember calling my health visitor in tears of desperation when he was 2 and she came up with a sleep plan that she was sure would help, but nope it made no difference what so ever. His sleeping consistently through the night wasn't great until he was about 5. He's 9 now and sleeps brilliantly. This morning I had to wake him up and force him out of bed. It does get better eventually but it's so hard when you're living it. I remember the lack of sleep and his strong personality almost breaking me some days. So I have no useful suggestions but just wanted you to know your not alone.

You're not your

My DC2 didn't sleep a full night through until she was 4.5. I just caved and let her come in with me where she would sleep, so at least I wasn't knackered. The only thing that worked for me was a reward chart with a star every night she stayed in bed and a small toy after every 5 stars. She wasn't mature enough to deal with this concept until she was 4 though. Does milk settle him every time? In which case, I would just make your life easier and give it.

Naps - I would give up. Both mine settled better at bedtime once they gave up naps. DD2 still didn't sleep all night though.

In terms of temperament, yes DD2 is very temperamental. School has helped but before that there were a lot of tantrums to ride out.

Thanks so much everyone! Knowing I'm not alone has been the biggest thing for me today!

He does settle with milk but I didn't want to get in the habit of that as I thought it might encourage him to continue to get up. But like you've said sometimes it's anything for us all to get a sleep!

I'll get the gro clock today and the cup for his milk and see how we go without a nap.

Thank you everyone!