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Original poster

confused.... why's it ok to offer food but not comfort?

52 replies

mabbit · 21/05/2007 22:15

My little girl is a year old now and a very bad sleeper. She wakes every two hours all through the night. A couple of weeks ago Hv told me I was damaging her and must do cc. It didn't work at all. Was horrid and wish I'd never tried. Now she says i've got to stop her feeding at night. Says she doesn't need the food and it's only for comfort and it is i suppose.

But why is it ok to feed her in the night if she's hungry, but not ok to give her comfort if she needs it? Aren't both those needs important? Very confused

OP posts:
kiskidee · 23/05/2007 22:57

aarg here

colditz · 23/05/2007 23:00

Mabbit you HV is a Loon.

Guys, we seriously need an emoticon saying "Your Hv is a Loon"

Angeliz · 23/05/2007 23:02

Stupid bloody health Visitor!
They come out with the biggest load of shite!

My dd2 and ds have (and are) co-sleeping and i love it. DP has been in the spare roo for years He doesn't mind bless him.
I never tell the H.V about co-sleeping as i couldn't bear to hear the drivel she'd spout. Good luck and i'm glad you're feeling better
I read '3 in a bed' and LOVE co - sleeping. I will be so sad when i don't have a baby stuck to my back anymore

colditz · 23/05/2007 23:09

my HV asked me every time I saw her (before I started refusing to see her, for other reasons)

"Is he sleeping through the night yet?"

and my answer was

"No, he still wakes for a feed, and I am happy with that."

She would say

"Oh, because once they are 6 months old, they don't need that feed any more, you know!"

And I would say

"Nevertheless, I am happy with that."

Ad infinitum. And eventually, she got the message and dropped the subject.

Nobody can actually make you do what they want you to do with your child.

nachomama · 23/05/2007 23:10

well done, you.
mabbit, motherhood's hard enough without aggro from those people who should be supporting you. there is actually evidence that cc is "damaging"

... unless mum can't cope with the waking anymore and her well-being has a "damaging" effect on herself, baby and other family members. most of my friends have used cc, fairly successfully, and i'm pleased that they have got a good thing going on. personally, i HATE cc. i think your HV's approach is DISGUSTING.

but i'll stop shouting (the only time i can be arsed to use the shift key to capitalise) and offer you a helpful link to a dr sears' page where there are several links to night-time issues, both sleeping and co-sleeping.

and i'll stop there for the moment because i am finding it hard to say things which won't land us in the midst of a legal maelstrom iykwim

mollymawk · 23/05/2007 23:27

Hi mabbit. Good on you for following your instincts. You should read Our Babies Ourselves - it's a fascinating study of how our culture compares with others in the way we treat our babies.

moondog · 23/05/2007 23:32

Well if you are happy, well and good Mabbit.I was happy to breasatfeed my babies until the age of 1 or so.
However it is also important to all of you that the father of your child is happy and that there is maritaL HARMONY. i FEEL REALLY SORRY FOR THESE BLOKES TURFED OUT INTO THE SPARE ROOM.

purplemonkeydishwasher · 23/05/2007 23:32

this is a quote from FrannyandZooey: "a dummy is a substitute for your breast, not the other way around. babies have a physiological need to suck, it is good for them"

nuff said!

purplemonkeydishwasher · 23/05/2007 23:32

oh yeah it must be horribel for them moondog. they get to sleep!

moondog · 23/05/2007 23:35

I wanted my dh near me and the baby.He sulked about being turfed out for 3 days after ds was born.
Am irresistable y'see.

purplemonkeydishwasher · 23/05/2007 23:37

me too! we have me, DH, DS and the dog in bed.
actually, I'D like to sleep in the spare room!

nappyaddict · 23/05/2007 23:39

could you give her water when she wakes in the night instead to settle her back off?

moondog · 23/05/2007 23:40

A night of utter peace would be heaven eh?
My dh away so haven't had a lie in for six weeks.6:30 wake up,every bloody morning.

DaddyJ · 24/05/2007 08:53

mabbit, be careful about throwing the old 'cc is damaging' argument at your hv/MIL
because if they have access to Google (or Mumsnet!) they could construct a powerful
counter-argument and use that to attack you further.

It is perfectly reasonable to point out, though, that cc does not always work, particularly
if the mother is not 100% behind it, and that there are alternatives that have been widely
acknowledged as suitable and effective (including by advocates of cc like Dr. Ferber), for
example co-sleeping.

You will find plenty of ammunition to back up your case!

fishie · 24/05/2007 09:15

mabbit, do whatever you feel happy with. ds (now 2) fed every 2 hours round clock for 6 months and was co-sleeping till 9m. then dp took over putting him to bed (which he still does) to settle him into cot and he's now in his own room with a little bed. (ds not dp!)

he woke up at 3am for a feed this morning, dp went and got him and took him back, we all went back to sleep, no problem.

dp settling is good because he clearly can't give milk so the whole process is a bit quicker!

i am telling you this so you can see that none of it lasts forever, it is good to get dp involved and you can't expect to have unbroken sleep anyway.

nachomama · 24/05/2007 10:17

DaddyJ

I was not necessarily advocating throwing the cc as "damaging" to HVs/MILs as a rule per se. I was merely pointing out that mabbit could use this as her "counter-argument" if they (as you say 3 people "ganging up") try to bully her into the cc because night-feeding is "damaging". The Dr Sears' page I provided, as well as kiskidee's links, as well as google can give weight to the co-sleeping/ night-feeding NOT cc argument.

But for the record, 100% behind fishie: do what works for your family.

Swizzler · 24/05/2007 10:29

I had a similar wobbly period the other day and was considering cc (DS 7 1/2 months). I found the info here really useful, if only to reassure me that a) waqking in the night is normal, b) feeding in the night is also normal and c) I'm doing the best thing for DS by listening to his needs. Woulds also recommmend the No Cry Sleep Solution as it has lots of suggestions for helping babies sleep better.

I's ask: are you exhausted? Do you need more sleep? If so, look at ways of improving things. But if you're ahppy with feeding in the night (I am, I jhust wish DS would wake less often!) then carry on.

BTW I've never discussed DS's sleep with my HV (apart from in the early days). I thinkI know what they'd say and I'm not interested

CC/sleep training works really well for some families so I wouldn't knock it outright. But it isn't right for us at the moment. And it sounds like it isn't right for you

tinymum · 24/05/2007 10:34

What a lovely supportive thread. Could have done with this when my eldest was tiny and hardly slept, and everyone at toddler group was telling me to put her in her cot, shut the door and turn up the radio (I kid you not.)

Swizzler · 24/05/2007 10:39

Was talking to another mum whose (sleeping) DS had arted waking in the night - she said she'd bought earplugs and . It took a while for her to realise that he was hungry and needed a feed... supose one of the good things about never having much unbroken sleep is that you can tell quite quickly if they are hungry or anxious etc.

DaddyJ · 24/05/2007 10:57

nachomama, good god, no I didn't want to start another CC debate - this thread has been all about support and we'll keep it that way.

I understand now where you're coming from, I just think if mabbit says 'cc causes damage'
and HV/MIL find even one of the studies that found no evidence of damage then they could well use that as a stick to undermine her even more.

She stands a better chance of keeping them at bay if she argues for co-sleeping and for gentle methods as opposed to against cc.

nachomama · 24/05/2007 11:18

Yes DaddyJ, the positive way forward is most likely to yield positive results.

My DS is just napping now (having slept from 10.30pm - 10 to 6am last night: VERY good for him @ nearly 11m!). I was thinking as I was tearing around the house, hanging laundry, sweeping that I might have been very sounding. Sorry. I do deplore the concept of cc, but not the people who use it. As I said, a large number of my mom friends have been happy with this method and think that i am fairly mad for continuing to feed at night.

BTW, DaddyJ, I was also thinking that you must be DaddyCool for being a bloke who cares enough to Mumsnet! (if you can make that into a verb)

DaddyJ · 24/05/2007 11:29

nachomama, big & at your last post!

DaddyCool has been around for much longer than me, I am nice dad, too, though!

Angeliz · 24/05/2007 12:30

You would so not feel sorry for my DP if you heard him snoring in the night when i'm feeding ds. If he was next to me i'd kill him!

I actually think this will have to be a long term arranmgement as none of us sleep when we're together. Me cause he snores and him cause i kick him.

Original poster
mabbit · 24/05/2007 21:00

I've been out all day again, to avoid dp's mum again. She scares the life out of me then i get home and find lots of lovely support messages Thank you all so much.

Been doing some thinking and I think you're right that i shouldn't say anything bad about cc. Anyway i know it works well for lots of people but my dd turned neurotic and i ended up packing a bag for us and threatening to leave if dp kept insisting we did it Now of course it's all my fault for not being strong enough, she'll feed forever if i don't put my foot down, dp shouldn't be kicked out of bed and all the rest of it.

Actually i'm sleeping better than ever now she's in with me and i'm not wandering about in the night. And i think dd wakes me up less than dp's snoring did, Angeliz

I'm happy now that i'm doing right for dd and for me. it's just getting everbody else off my back now, that's the problem. Thank you for those links, i've printed some stuff out but I bet all i'll dare to do is poke it through her letterbox then go out every day and avoid the phone for six months. Should talk to dp but he's got this big case and his head is somewhere else and we'll only start rowing about his mum

OP posts:
DaddyJ · 25/05/2007 10:25

mabbit, yay, it's good to get some sleep!

Some more ammunition for you:
This is a really interesting study of co-sleeping in Japan, the whole
text is openly accessible.
It's written by Japanese researchers together with researchers from the Harvard
Medical School which gives it real credibility.

One of the conclusions is: when co-sleeping works for mother and baby,
it is a perfectly excellent option.

mabbit's MIL: put that in your pipe and smoke it!