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Sleep

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Original poster

following on from katierocket and the impossible newborn....WHY won't he sleep...Please help

62 replies

katierocket · 18/05/2007 11:24

can I rant?

WHY do I have two children that are rubbish sleepers, I've had 5 years of it with DS1 and now DS2 (16weeks) is the same. He will not sleep in the day unless he's in pram and even then will only capnap so is always overtired. He wakes up even when you're still pushing. If at home he will fall asleep in arms but the second you put him down he wakes up. At night he's rubbish, either waking up every 2 hours or going until 3am (which is good) but then not going back to sleep at all - capnapping for 20 mins etc.

I am so tired, so close to the edge and so fed up with it all. I know many people deal with much worse but I just don't understand.
He's not hungry, we've done cranial osteopathy blah, blah. He just doesn't seem to have an 'off switch'.

I think I've had 4 hours sleep for the last 5 weeks or so. And DS2 gets up at 6/6.30am so there is just no respite

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beckybrastraps · 19/05/2007 13:58

My ds was just the same. He cried all day and woke every two hours for feeding at night, very rarely going back to sleep afterwards. I used to fret about why, but my mum said 'some babies just cry'. And bizarrely that helped. I mean, I was still knackered, but I wasn't trying to fathom why he was crying. I did also co-sleep. Often by default because I was so exhausted I fed him lying down and fell asleep while he was still attached.

Also did cc at about a year. And since then he has been a fab sleeper. So it can work itself out.

Keep strong!

franca70 · 19/05/2007 14:04

same as beckybrastraps. Ds was an impossible newborn, crying constantly, never slept during the day (and night, really) feeding for ages (which was good, as it gave me plenty of time to relax and watch the whole series of the gilmore girls). I only survived by having people around me. The more he grew up the better he became. I think he didn't like babyhood.

beckybrastraps · 19/05/2007 14:19

I would sit and hold ds (because it made me feel better to hold him - didn't stop his crying) and watch television with the subtitles on .

I also took him out a lot. Parent and child groups int e morning, walk in the afternoon. Just to get away from sitting in the house with a yelling baby.

I actually became quite desensitised to the sound. Which was a bit sad for poor dd when she came along, because she was completely different. I still am actually. My friends are moved by the sound of a baby crying. I hardly notice.

franca70 · 19/05/2007 14:28

{sorry, but lolling at watching the telly with subtitles!}
ds used to be passed from one member of the family to another, the only thing that seemed to calm him down was FIL, notoriously tone-deaf, singing to him old songs of the Italian resistance movement.

nappyaddict · 19/05/2007 14:47

would he sleep in a sling during the day?

Original poster

katierocket · 19/05/2007 16:24

Oh thank you. As ever my link to sanity! It really does help to hear the "mine are exactly the same stories" because I so rarely meet parents in RL who have similar babies and that can mean you start to question your parenting skills.

franca70 - "I think he didn't like babyhood." this so rang a bell with me. DS1 was definitely in this camp. He was a dreadful, fretful, miserable little baby but at every development stage he got easier and easier and I can honestly say that we never had terrible twos or tantrums. Having said that he still gets up bl**dy early! I think DS2 is obviously the same. So I know there is an end in site somewhere but it's so hard when you're in teh midst of it all isn't it.

The real trouble is that when DS1 is off school (as he will be for 2 weeks soon - eek) I am really stuffed since the only way to get DS2 to sleep is to walk him in pram or hold him, poor DS1 has to come on long, fast walks (since DS2 won't accept a gentle stroll) or play on his own (quietly since a pin drop wakes DS2) while I sit in darkened room holding baby. And it's hard for me to take DS1 anywhere because DS2 won't fall asleep in we're out and about but would just cry and scream.

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Original poster

katierocket · 19/05/2007 16:30

and so often it seems that it's boys that are like this?

nappyaddict - slin used to be my salvation, I would wear it for hours a day and he would sleep in it but problem is that he only seems to like cradle carry and he's too big for that now.

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MellowMa · 19/05/2007 16:33

Message withdrawn

nappyaddict · 19/05/2007 16:37

ah so he has reflux. go back to the gp and ask for losec or domperidone. it is much better than gaviscon and ranitidine.

franca70 · 19/05/2007 16:40

Katierocket, yes I found that every developmental change brought an improvement. He got easier... (while his sister, who was a very easy baby, was quite a handful from 6 to 18 months).

SofiaAmes · 19/05/2007 16:40

Have you tried going away without the kids? My mother said that I was a terrible terrible sleeper as a baby. And then once when I was 2 or 3, they went away on a trip for a few days and left us with the nanny (who had already been with us for many years). When they came back, the nanny said that I had slept beautifully through the night. And from then on I did every night. (maybe the nanny gave me whisky?)

It will get better soon. At some point they will be able to entertain themselves. I am writing this from my bed on saturday morning having just had a lie in since ds and dd got up early and went downstairs and are watching tv very very quietly.

Some kids just don't nap. And you will have to figure out another way to rest them. My dd is like this. She hated doing her midday nap. It took forever to get her to fall asleep and it was never in her cot...it was always in the car or walking around in the buggy. She was less than 2 when she gave up doing any sort of midday nap on a regular basis.
Ds is now 6.5 and still has one if he's given the opportunity. And in fact, dh is 45 and still has one given the opportunity.

Good luck you poor thing. How about a holiday!!! Italy is really good with kids.

franca70 · 19/05/2007 16:41

It's probably alredy been asked, but do you have somebody who can do the two hour pram pushing for you on half term?

seamonster · 19/05/2007 17:00

I've just remembered the name of the woman who did the tv program- Tracy Hogg-she really seemed to know what she was talking about, perhaps she did a book.

nappyaddict · 19/05/2007 17:05

she did its something like the complete guide to sleep

awayfromhome · 19/05/2007 17:24

I also sympathise - I have a ds who is nearly 7 months old, I don't think that I have had more than 4 hours sleep a night since he was born (apart from 2 nights where I had a night nurse - bliss!!) He refuses to sleep in his cot, can go in there absolutely out of it and the minute he is put down wakes up and starts screaming. He will sleep in his rocker, but only for a maximum of 3 hours, and after waking at 4am refuses to go back to sleep for about 2 hours and then only when held!!! It is driving me insane.

I followed the same rountine with him that I followed with my dd (3yrs) and she has always been a fantastic sleeper, so this is a bit of a shock for me... I just keep going in the hope that one day I will wake up in the morning and realise he has slept through the night ..

Aloha · 19/05/2007 17:31

Lots of sympathy. He sounds like my nightmare ds and it is utter, utter hell. None of our children have slept - dsd was awful, ds was appalling and dd seemed comparatively great compared to ds, because she did go to sleep but she never napped except in her pram and always woke in the night. With ds he finally slept (with the help of a bit of cc) at eight months. Keep plugging away with teh routine etc, and remember lots of babies go particularly barmy at 16 weeks - developmental spurt time - and it can be the worst time of all, even worse than newborn. A couple of weeks from now he could be better - not brilliant probably! - but better. Is there anyone who could take him out for a few hours so you could sleep or rest?

amidaiwish · 19/05/2007 17:37

totally sympathise too
DD1 was like this
we had a swing - i used to put her in it in the middle of the night when she just wouldn't go to sleep, she used to stare me out, i used to dim the lights and just wait for her to fall asleep, then transfer her to her moses basket.

most of the time i just used to bf her lying down, almost all night, at least that way i got some sleep.

it does get better...

saying that she still isn't great at getting herself to sleep (likes dh to rub her back wtf) and the minute she wakes she springs up, even if knackered... she's up at 6am on a good day!

DD2 on the other hand was better (a bit) as a baby, but at 19m still has milk in the night. flipping ridiculous. but at least that way she does go through til 6ish, otherwise she is up at 5, and wakes DD1 and it is all a disaster.

Aloha · 19/05/2007 17:39

Dh and I did shifts in teh night with ds - sleeping in separate beds with the hideous little blighter, ie 1-4 and 4-7 so we'd get a bit of sleep. Oh god, it is quite painful to even remember it! he's lovely now and I try not to hold it against him...

Original poster

katierocket · 19/05/2007 19:18

I do have lots of help from my mum (and a lot less from MIL ) but obviously there's a limit to how much she can do (or I woudl want her to do, she's such a star, I would have lost the plot without her).

You know, the hard part is not succumbing to the evil thought that it is somehow my fault or something I am doing. I think particularly because we've had two bad sleepers it's hard not to sometimes.

awayfromhome - the 4am things sounds identical to what we're going through

Aloha - I didn't know that about 16 week development spurt causing them to go crazy - is that really the case?

amidaiwish - "the minute she wakes she springs up, even if knackered... she's up at 6am on a good day!" this is so my DS1. He also will do anything to avoid going to bed.

I will repeat mantra "this too will pass" but hard when so so tired to keep perspective. God knows when me and DP will sleep in same bed together for any length of time.

Am also petrified because we're about to move house and area soon - god knows what will happen then....

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franca70 · 19/05/2007 19:41

It is certainly not your fault. Having had a baby who cried a lot/didn't sleep and another who was very easy and settled, I can def say that it's up to their nature. Take all the help you can, I'd offer to push the pram if you were living nearby (I still remember, with ds I walked miles and miles and miles, and when he was finally asleep, if I stopped for more than a minute, he'd wake up, extremely p* off)

2Happy · 19/05/2007 20:01

OMG KR ...I don't know how you can think straight enough to type on that little sleep. I wish I lived nearer (you're manchester, right?) or I'd offer to help take one/both off your hands for a few hours to give you a rest

marthamoo · 19/05/2007 20:10

Oh katie, I'm sorry it's no better. FWIW, I've been there too - ds1 didn't sleep more than 40 minutes at a stretch til he was 8 months old, didn't sleep through the night til he was 3, and has always been an early riser - going through long periods of getting up at 4.30-5am. Ds2 was bad too - though thankfully not quite as bad.

I was a walking zombie and I'm sure it was an aggravating factor in my PND.

I don't have any solution either - but it does (eventually) get better, it's just so desperately hard while it's ongoing and it's hard to enjoy them at all when you are so bloody tired.

CODalmighty · 19/05/2007 20:10

god hats shite kr

Original poster

katierocket · 19/05/2007 20:11

ah yes franca, i find myself running across roads because I just can't bear to stop for 1 min in case he wakes.

2Happy - thanks, irony is that before I had children I was one of those people that adored sleep, always having big lie ins etc. Obviously payback time!

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Original poster

katierocket · 19/05/2007 20:12

yes moo - that's so true, it is hard to enjoy them when you're so tired. And bless him, for all his sleeping faults, when not overtired etc he really is a cheerful little chap who seems so excited by everythign around him.

Cod - indeed

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