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Sleep

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Original poster

following on from katierocket and the impossible newborn....WHY won't he sleep...Please help

62 replies

katierocket · 18/05/2007 11:24

can I rant?

WHY do I have two children that are rubbish sleepers, I've had 5 years of it with DS1 and now DS2 (16weeks) is the same. He will not sleep in the day unless he's in pram and even then will only capnap so is always overtired. He wakes up even when you're still pushing. If at home he will fall asleep in arms but the second you put him down he wakes up. At night he's rubbish, either waking up every 2 hours or going until 3am (which is good) but then not going back to sleep at all - capnapping for 20 mins etc.

I am so tired, so close to the edge and so fed up with it all. I know many people deal with much worse but I just don't understand.
He's not hungry, we've done cranial osteopathy blah, blah. He just doesn't seem to have an 'off switch'.

I think I've had 4 hours sleep for the last 5 weeks or so. And DS2 gets up at 6/6.30am so there is just no respite

OP posts:

Original poster

katierocket · 18/05/2007 11:28

should add that he used to sleep in sling because it was literally the only way he would stop screaming. Now he's too big to be carried in cradle position and he hates being upright.

OP posts:

maisiemog · 18/05/2007 11:32

I was about to say, when my little boy was about 4 months, he didn't like the cross carry at the front, but he liked an adapted hip carry? I think he got fed up looking at my cleavage.
I do sympathise with the no sleep - hope it picks up soon. Or run away to sea?

chocolatte · 18/05/2007 11:36

oh poor you. youre doing really well - i found it hard enough with one. Do you have a nap routine? i found his helpedbut i know its harder with 2!

Original poster

katierocket · 18/05/2007 11:46

He won't nap though, that's the problem. If you put him down awake he just lies there screaming, he you put him down asleep he wakes up.

OP posts:

seamonster · 18/05/2007 11:56

Do you have a bedtime routine? I know some people don't bother but I found it has helped with all of mine. Also make him get up with his big brother and get him dressed etc.You could try to keep night feeds dark and quiet (difficult when you feel like screaming)
I watched a program on tv once that suggested that he was so over tired he couldn't sleep properly and they tried controlled crying (I think that's what they called it) at night and making sure they put him down before he dropped off.
Good luck and try to sleep if and when you can (easier said than done)

BikeBug · 18/05/2007 12:21

I think thats the age that co-sleeping really worked for us. I mean, he still woke up, but it was more bearable for me. God, I remember those hour-long walks with the pram, at the same time every afternoon in an attempt to establish a routine, hoping he'd fall asleep and wishing that he'd stay that way until we got home at least... Much sympathy. And have you tried a different sling? I know you said upright isn't good, but I'm one of the Ergo fans - I still carry ds in it, and he'll still fall asleep there.

Flower3554 · 18/05/2007 12:27

I know people frown on this but I find that putting my lo's in a bouncer then sitting with my feet either side, on the metal frame bit, and gently bouning baby settles them. It can take a while but eventually they drift off and I slowly, not abruptly stop rocking.

I don't know if this would help you as I've always done it from day 1.

My lo now goes down for naps awake and he settles himself off to sleep. I'm also a firm believer in swaddling, but again from day 1.

Can't hurt to give these a go.

Original poster

katierocket · 18/05/2007 12:50

Yes we have bedtime routine - always have.
Yes I keep night feeds dark.

I like the look of Ergo but he doesn't have strong enough head control just yet - a few more weeks and I'll give it a go.

OP posts:

Original poster

katierocket · 18/05/2007 12:51

If you put him in anything (other than holding him or pushing in pram), he just flails his arms around and cries. The longer you leave him i.e. rocking in car seat or chair or whatever, the more he cries.

OP posts:

seamonster · 18/05/2007 12:52

Try swaddling him

Manoo · 18/05/2007 19:23

Fraid I've got no advice, but have lots of sympathy. I'm going through a very similar thing.

Ds1 - just turned 4, always been a terrible sleeper, years of frustration, finally getting better through night but waking at 5-6AM.

Ds2 - 8 weeks, won't sleep unless in someone's arms. From day one, he would wake immediately after being put down. He won't fall asleep in the car seat. He won't fall asleep in the pram. He'll only fall asleep on the breast or in the sling, and wakes up straight away if we try and put him anywhere else. On good days he'll at least stay asleep in the sling for decent lengths of time, on bad days (like today), he'll wake up after 30-40 mins in sling, then we'll have lots of screaming when we next try get him to sleep cause he's over tired.

The only things that are keeping me going are 1) getting dh to get up with ds1 so I get some more kip in the morning (do you have a dh/dp who could get up with both of yours?) and 2) i go to bed as soon as possible after getting both mine to sleep and 3) i co-sleep so the million times that ds2 wakes i bf him lying down so i get more sleep.

Like you I'm fed up cause of having two rubbish sleepers in a row. All my friends with babies seem to have wonderful placid creatures that sleep and sleep and sleep anywhere for ages and ages. It's not blooming fair, is it?

Right, am off to see if dh has managed to get ds2 to sleep in sling for millionth time today.

Good luck. Wish I had something more positive to offer.

foxinsocks · 18/05/2007 19:27

it's not a reflux thing is it katie? if he's falling asleep in your arms, is he upright?

or do you think it's more of a 'only sleep when you are around' type thing

foxinsocks · 18/05/2007 19:29

what are you feeding him?

MellowMa · 18/05/2007 19:41

Message withdrawn

Original poster

katierocket · 19/05/2007 13:28

Ah Manoo, how reassuring that I am not alone. You could be describing both mine. I do sometimes sleep with DS2 but not always as I feel like I can't move for fear of squishing him - he always likes to be close. I too get so frustrated that others seem to have sleeping babies - some stupid woman in the park told me that her too were really good sleepers and she thought it was because "she'd always been really strict with them". I did laugh inwardly and thought, "be not smug love, it's nothing to do with being strict, it's largely luck".

I am bad at going to sleep when they do basically because I spend every waking hour (and much of the night) with him attached to me somehow and it's nice to have a couple of hours to do nothing (but probably not htat sensible).

His current nightime fun is to wake up around 4am (after about 3 other wakes) and refuse to sleep unless held. (wish there was a tired emoticon with bags under its eyes).

foxinsocks - I do think that some of the problem is reflux but much of it is temperament. When you try and put him down and his eyes spring open, he eagerly looks around him as if he's missing out on something - is never ever a 'sleepy' baby (and neither was DS2 who still springs out of bed the second his eyes open).

Mellowma - I did cut out dairy for 2 weeks (he's BF) but it didn't seem to make much difference.

god what a long (and boring post) !

OP posts:

allieBongo · 19/05/2007 13:30

get some baby gaviscon, fast... you must be so tired.

Original poster

katierocket · 19/05/2007 13:31

I did get prescribed baby gav but is hard to give as I'm BF. Then he was given Rantidine by paed but it didn't seem to make a huge difference. I am toying with the idea of going back to GP but suspect there is no cure for the troublesome titcher.

OP posts:

allieBongo · 19/05/2007 13:33

i see. i bottlefed. can you not express and put in bottles??

Original poster

katierocket · 19/05/2007 13:34

Yes I could do but have never got the hang of expressing. Plus the last thing I want to do with the precious few minutes of the day when he's not attached to me/ or I'm pushing him - is sit attached to a pump!

It puts such a strain on relationship with DP too. I know everyone has this with newborn but with a baby like this it goes on and on.

OP posts:

allieBongo · 19/05/2007 13:36

That's awful. I would go back to GP. Poor you

Blandmum · 19/05/2007 13:38

sympathy, sympathy, sympathy.

My two were like this. They would only sleep if I held them, so I slept on the floor on a futon with them only way we all got any sleep.

If it helps any, gradually they grew out of it. Hopefully your ds2 will too.

I also did cc with them when they were older. And it worked very well.

They are now 7 and 10 and both good sleepers.

Hopw you get some rest soon.

kateyp · 19/05/2007 13:38

Woo-hoo! I am not alone!!

No advice from me either, just pleased that I am not sat up on my own at 4am with a baby grinning at me as if to say "OK? What shall we do now?!"

DS1 (now age 2.5) was always a dreadful sleeper and currently is sleeping through but rising at the wonderful hour of 5.30am (this morning twenty past 5, hoorah).

DS2 (age 9 weeks) is really following in big brother's footsteps. Wakes 2 hourly without fail - whether he has had a full breast feed, or a gallon of formula and then when it hits 4am is wide awake, looking at me and screaming if I put him down. We were co-sleeping until he started to feed hourly (!) at which point I felt compelled to shut the all-you-can-eat-all-night buffet (this was above and beyond a growth spurt - unless he was growth spurting for a fortnight) . So we are currently trying to emphasize the bedtime routine, put him to bed in his crib instead of cuddling him etc etc. Having said that he has just dozed off in my arms again, and I guarentee he will wake up as soon as I put him down anywhere.

Except the swing - he will sleep in the swing - but I don't like that because he looks all scrunched up...!

So - empathy, and I will be thinking of you tomorrow morning first thing!!

kateyp · 19/05/2007 13:40

Sorry - the "two hourly without fail" is the longest he will go - he doesn't do that every time.

Wilkie · 19/05/2007 13:43

Oh KR, I am so sorry that you are still having trouble.

Maybe you should try weaning?? Or FF with Gaviscon in the bottles.

I really don't know what else to suggest. J still isn't sleeping through at night if that is any small consolation at all.

stillwaitingforbubba · 19/05/2007 13:48

Have you tried sleeping him on his front? It worked for me - I had one just the same as you. The stats are all there to show the risk is actually still very low of cot death assuming everything else is in place- and at 4 months he is out of the prime category anyway. I have also realised that learning to go to sleep is a skill like any other - gradually leaving them to try to settle themselves for a few minutes during the day increasing it slowly really does work as they realise they can put themselves out of their misery by going to sleep. But it does involve a bit of crying at first which I know not everyone is happy to do. I honestly think though if there is no medical condition causing the discomfort it is the only way that works- just another life skill they have to learn.

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