I think I’m at breaking point - losing hope, every day it gets worse and worse...

[IJustNeedToSleep]

Hi - I’ve never posted anything before... I’ve read countless threads, but things have got to such a state that I could really do with some advice.

I feel so low and I’m constantly on the verge of tears... my five month old has never really been a good sleeper - but every day I hope there will be some improvement, and then instead of getting better, it actually gets worse. I pick myself up and think ‘ok, well - we can do this and that to cope with this new thing he’s thrown at us...’ and then it gets even worse still...

He will only go to sleep if rocked. If I try and put him in his cot drowsy but awake, he screams. We have a good bedtime routine where he’s bathed at 6:15, fed at half 6 and then normally asleep in my arms by about 6:45. The problem is that he then won’t stay asleep when I put him in his cot. One time it took me 15 goes to get him to down once he’d fallen asleep... and he seems to be waking up more and more during the night and getting more and more difficult to settle and get back to sleep. The thing that’s really killing me tbough is that for about 8 weeks, he’s been waking up every 45 mins from about 3am.... every night, so I’m maybe getting 20 mins of sleep before I’m woken back up again and have to go through it all again before I can crawl back into bed and cry. On top of that, he has now started waking up every 45 mins after he’s been put down at 7.... so we’re not getting an evening anymore either.

A typical night at the moment is like this:

6:15 - bath
6:30 - feed
6:45/7 - asleep by being rocked (I’d then have to stand there for about 10-15 mins with him in my arms before even trying to put him down... and it’s a complete lottery as to how many tries it’ll take to get him to stay down
7:45 - awake, resettled by rocking and trying to put him down (this gets harder and less successful as the night goes on)

He’s now waking up another two times before his first feed at 10/11ish

11 - feed, rocked to sleep
12 - awake, resettled with rocking and trying to put him down process
3 - awake, feed, resettled with rocking

He’s then awake after 45 mins - I go back in, resettle, and from the moment he falls asleep, he’ll be awake 45 mins later. It’ll probably take me 20-25 mins to get him back down... so I get to sleep for 20 mins and then he’s awake again...

My partner and I work in shifts through the night so we can both get a block of a few hours sleep during the night. He does from 10pm til 2am and I do from 2am til the morning... when he then goes off to work and I have our boy all day until he comes home again at about half 6 when we do bath and bedtime together.

I know rocking is a negative sleep association... but we were in survival mode in the first few weeks and amongst the constant crying, screaming and grunting, this was the only thing that got him to sleep... from 2-3 months we did start to make progress with putting him down awake and him taking himself off to sleep... but at 3.5 months I think he started having his sleep regression and this completely stopped. I’d spot early tired signs and put him down, but he’d start screaming instantly, so I’d have to pick him up and rock him.

And, this is where we’ve netted out. I’m sure it’s all our fault and we’ve created a million rods for our backs... but I’m so sleep deprived and desperate, and emotional... all the time, I can’t see a way out.

We’ve now got him on a four hourly feeding schedule, so in the day he’s fed at 7, 11, 3 and 7... before that it was pretty much feed on demand.

I ebf for 4 months but have now gone on to formula to share the feeding load and to stop me from actually losing my mind.

He’s only ever catnapped during the day - whatever I do, he will never sleep for longer. By the end of the day, he always seems overtired. I’ve tried for the past week to resettle him after his morning and lunchtime naps to persuade his body clock into thinking he should stay asleep for longer... but this doesn’t seem to have done anything.

If anyone’s got any advice, I would be so grateful.

Sorry if this seems like a bit of a ranty ramble... my brain doesn’t work properly anymore.

Thanks everyone.

You poor soul! I though mine were bad, waking every 1-2 hours, but you have it really tough.

Sleep experts will be along soon, but there might be a reason why he is so unsettled. Can I ask whether he was an assisted delivery - foreceps or venteuse? DS1 was a venteuse delivery and cranial osteopathy saved our sanity - the osteopath said that he would probably have been having fairly painful headaches since birth. The difference was amazing to see in him during the treatment - for the first time ever he fell asleep unassisted during the treatment on her couch. He didn't become a brilliant sleeper, but certainly much better afterwards. We had just two treatments. Best £100 I have ever spent.

Best of luck

Wow - that’s really interesting... the birth wasn’t great. I had an epidural and they had me pushing for 2.5 hours before they worked out his head was at a funny angle so he was stuck... so then they delivered him with venteuse.

I’ll look into Cranial Osteopathy.

Thank you

I haven't read through it all thoroughly but just got a couple of quick comments. You are not making a rod for your back when baby is so small, just do what you ned to do to maximise sleep. So if you both get more sleep by safe bed sharing, do that until you have more energy to transition to seperate sleeping spaces. If he needs to be rocked, then rock him until he's fully asleep rather than putting him down drowsy. Learning tp soothe themselves to sleep is a developmental thing and maybe he is just not ready yet. Also feed as he signals for it, not to a schedule. There's info out there about feeding cues, it's better to pick up on those early cues rather than wait until he's screaming.
I'm sure others will be along with more advice but it is tough. I only started enjoying my baby at 10-11 months when ahe finally started sleeping in 2-3 hour stretches x

I am certainly no sleep expert, I'm still bimbling along 8 years on... But one thing I know is that with DC1 I tried to do what I'd read about and avoid 'sleep associations' (wtf how do these people think humans work?! Everything has associations) and avoiding making 'rods for my own back' and then I went back to work when he was 6 months old.... and I slept in the spare bed with DC1 and it was great. Put him to bed (fed to sleep! Rocked in the rocking chair! Aargh!) and when he first woke after that, I lay in bed with him and we had a cuddle and slept so well. I've done this semi-co-sleeping-survival-whatevs for all of the others too now and still do with the youngest (16m).
I remember saying at work (I live and work in an Asian country) about DC1 being in my bed and how I must get him out before long because he was 18m or something- they all looked at me like I was utterly mental as their kids sleep in the parents room until they are ready- often 4/5/6yrs. And usually in one giant bed! It's just the UK and US who think it's culturally appropriate to 'train' babies to fit in with how we would like to live our lives as adults.
Ooh I never even knew I felt this strongly about this until I wrote this!!!
But basically, the only advice I have is cuddle them and sleep whenever possible xxx
I do hope something helps little one sleep for longer than 45mins soon and until then...

(FWIW- the older children all hop into bed and sleep all night in their own beds, they just didn't when babies)

Will he sleep in bed with you? Mine never ever slept in a cot until 9 months, but he would sleep reasonably well snuggled up next to me in bed (although he would have preferred to be on my chest!)

Thanks all - I’ve tried taking him into bed with me... he just cries unless he’s on me, I’m standing up and I’m rocking him!

We’ve completely given up on attempting to put him down drowsy now. We rock him to sleep and then when he looks completely asleep, we try to put him down. Normally he wakes back up as soon as we put him down, so it takes a few goes to get him to stay down...

Re: feeding - I was feeding on demand, but he was snacking every time and eating every hour or so. Getting him on a 4 hourly eating schedule has actually been quite good. He’s never screaming by the 4 hour mark, but he’s definitely hungry and he eats a decent amount at each feed. If he looked noticeably hungry at any other time I would definitely feed him...

Co sleeping helped me stay sane when ds3 had his reflux and refused to sleep and cried instead almost all the time.

Hi
It sounds like you need to break the sleep association. He is waking up so frequently because when he surfaces briefly between sleep cycles instead of gently going into the next one he is thinking which! WhAt has happened, I was rocking in mum's arms and now I'm on my back alone in my cot. Have you Google gentle ways to break a sleep association? I wonder can you start with your rock solid routine (bath, sleepsuit, shut curtains together) and then take steps towards him falling asleep alone eg phase one rock him to v near sleep and then gently into the cot. If he wakes when he goes in stay with him and reassure him gently. Phase two would be to remove the rocking so a cuddle till very drowsy and into cot. Btw I heard the best nap of the day to try this with is the one after waking for the day so about 1hr30 to 2hrs after waking, something to do with sleep hormones still being in the body.

Oops, posted two soon. Phase three into cot and stay with him till he falls asleep and phase four into the cot and off you go while he falls asleep independently.

No advice I’m afraid, but just to say we are very much in the same boat with our 5 month old and it’s AWFUL. I’m also at the end of my tether and don’t know what to do. Our LO is slightly different to yours, in that he goes to sleep okay at 6.30/7pm ish (sometimes feeds to sleep, sometimes just needs a bit of shushing / back patting), but then wakes up really frequently, like yours. He seems to be really hungry in the night (have just started a separate thread about this!) and rarely resettles without a feed, but isn’t eating much in the day. He wakes up every 1-2 hours overnight (sometimes every 45 mins 😱), which is soul destroying. I’m on my knees with sleep deprivation. He also won’t take a bottle, so it’s all on me.

Instead of rocking being our sleep association, it’s feeding. Don’t want to upset him by not feeding at night, especially if he’s genuinely hungry. Also don’t want him to wake up our older DD with screaming! But need something to change soon, or I’m going to end up unwell. Could probably cope if we got either a few hours in the evening or a few hours overnight. Not asking for much - just one 3 hour stretch would be amazing!! He can easily go that long in the day without a feed, so why not at night??!!

Following this thread for any tips.

Someone help us please!!!!

OP have you been to the doctor? This could be a case of reflux. It can be helped with baby gavisvon bit I think it needs to be prescribed. Also another thing you could try is coleif. It's drips to put in the baby's milk to break down the lactose. It really helped with both my kids and I recommend it to everyone now and works for them too. It could be that he is just not a great sleeper but it sounds like there is something disturbing him. I know you may not want to do this but have you tried having him in the bed with you?

Just echoing what PPs are saying about silent reflux. A couple of things made me think that; not liking to be put down and grunting. I was at the end of my tether until DS got the correct medication. for you though. Sleep deprivation is so tough.

It like I could've wrote this message. I'm in the same boat as you and have been for 8 months now (not what you'll want to hear I know)

So here's a couple of things
Has your wee one been checked for tounge tie?
Is it silent reflux every time he's on his back does he seem in pain?

And lastly do you have someone that can rock them in pram or take them a walk so you can get a bit of sleep?

Yy to trying colief (an entirely natural product) and seeing your gp re silent reflux, as well as trying the cranial osteopathy. Check out every avenue - hopefully one of them will help.

Warning - the first time you get a good night's sleep you will feel wonderful. The second time you may feel awful. I did! My body just screamed for more sleep.

Best of luck.

I’d do shh pat.

Day 1 - 3, do rocking but include making a shh noise and patting his bum at the same time

Day 3-7, don’t rock but just stand and do shh noise and patting

Day 8-10 put in cot wide awake and then do shh noise and patting

Then hopefully you can take less time to shh and pat from there and he can start going over on his own.

Daytimes - at 5 months aiming for 3 naps, often quite short after an awake time of 2 hours or so. 7am wake, 9am nap, 12 pm nap, 3pm nap and 6.30 bed or something along those lines. Settle for all sleeps the same way.

HTH

Thank you all so much for your advice and kind words. It really helps.

So - I too thought he might have silent reflux, but he is quite happy on his back, and over the past 5 months there have been occasions when he’s stayed asleep for up to 5 hours (very very rarely....), so I know he can do it and he doesn’t seem in pain when he’s on his back...

I think it’s definitely a case of a negative sleep association - I’ve tried shush/pat, leaving him for a minute or two to see if he’ll settle himself, just cuddling, waiting for him to get so tired he jut falls asleep himself..... but nothing seems to work.... he just cries and cries and cries, and wriggles and squirms until I rock him.

I think unfortunately we might have to do some sort of sleep training, but obviously we won’t do that until 6 months... I’m loathed to do cry it out... but my mental health is really taking a hit, so I’m thinking I might have to.

I knew parenthood would be hard, but I don’t think I ever appreciated quite what sleep deprivation does to you.

Thanks everyone

X

Please please do sleep training, I had a very similar baby who was never great then got worse and worse from four months on until he was often waking every hour or so, would often take ages and ages to resettle (sometimes up to two hours), and co sleeping made no difference. He was also in a swaddle and had a dummy. I was in a really dire mental and physical state and did sleep training as soon as he got to six months - was convinced it could not possibly work on him - and after the first night he was sleeping hours at a time and within a week he was sleeping 7pm to 7am in his cot with just one feed about 4 or 5am. It also transformed naps - suddenly I could just put him down and he went to sleep. The freedom from endless rocking and shush patting and all the despair and anxiety was just INCREDIBLE - and he was SO much happier for sleeping properly! He was crying so much and sleeping so little that i one hundred percent believe controlled crying was the kindest thing to do for him.

Wow - thank you... that’s really encouraging to hear.

😀

Hi

Have you tried rocking til drowsy and then putting into cot on his side (providing the can roll confidently?) holding on firmly to his shoulder with one hand and hip/leg with the other hand and rocking gently like that? Then slowly rock less and keep hands there until breathing slows and then move one hand about 1cm off (so heat is still there) and then move that away and repeat with other hand.

Ideally he would be kinda awake when you are doing this but very sleepy.

This is what I have done with both of mine to transition from rocking to cot settle.

Otherwise you could do the shh pat/rub his back thing?

I tried CC with my first baby but it didn’t work. He was sick and that made it worse but I know several friends who it worked a dream for.

Only you know your baby and if you try something and it doesn’t work it doesn’t matter.

Dont forget you are doing an amazing job. I have had two non sleepers and it’s really tough - tests you but you get through. Weirdly you will be a stronger person after all this!

Take care x

I echo all those that say do sleep train. It is an important skill to teach children. There are very few babies over 1 who need to be awake in the night, however you read some horror stories!

We got into a rock to sleep association, I broke it with gentle cc around 7 month as I was going back to work.

One thing I would say is make awake times in the day no longer than 2 hours. If he will sleep in the pushchair, get him to drop off and then if he stirs re rock/push until he goes back to sleep. He's got to learn to link sleep cycles.

So sorry OP, sleep deprivation is a terrible thing! Fwiw, 5 months was the worst time for my DS in terms of sleep - genuinely thought I'd never sleep again! And felt huge pressure to sort it as everyone kept asking if he was sleeping through and telling me I looked exhausted. It DID improve - at 6 months there was definite improvement with naps as he started to nap for longer and by 6.5 months this translated to better nights too. Now at 11months he still doesn't sleep through but usually only 1 or 2 wake ups and is easily re-settled. We have not done any sleep training yet, he made this improvement himself. I do think a lot of it is developmental. Good luck and take care.

How long did you try shh pat and other techniques for? Really you need to try any new tech for one week at every sleep to say you’ve given it a go.

I’d absolutely sleep train at 6 months though. You can’t live like you are.

There's a Facebook page called the beyond sleep training might be worth a look for advice if your not wanting to sleep train but don't really know what to do. Be warned though they are VERY against training so tread carefully