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Toddler, dropping naps and bedtime circuses

11 replies

badb · 01/05/2018 09:12

Hi all. I know there's a thread going about toddlers and napping, but I hope you don't mind that I started a new one, as this is slightly different and I didn't want to derail. Sorry, this might be long.

I'm just wondering about what to do about dropping naps, and also about nursery's role in this, in a way. For context, my 2.4 year old has always been a dreadful sleeper. She just doesn't seem to need the same amount of sleep as other children - she is a machine. Anyway, very occasional sleeping through the night recently has coincided with her dropping her naps, or really, really reducing them - no more than 30-40 minutes, or nothing, and she goes to sleep happily by 7.45pm and often (not always) sleeps till 6.30am.

This only happens at weekends however. During the week at nursery, they are all put down for a nap at noon until 2. Even if they don't sleep, they have to lie down on a mat and be very quiet, while sleepy lullabies play - unsurprisingly, she drops off every day. I've asked them to reduce her naps to no more than 45 minutes if possible, but no matter how little (or how much) she sleeps there, bedtime is a circus. Usually takes around 2.5 hours, and she needs one of us to be in the room with her until she drops off. They are not willing to keep her awake: in fact, because she has difficulty being quiet during this time and disturbs other happily napping toddlers, they actively help her to drop off by sitting near her and rubbing her back. These nights, even after going to sleep at 9.30/10, she often wakes during the night two or three times, and is up by 6am without fail.

Here's the thing though - it's not that she isn't tired. She is clearly tired - right from the start, her eyes are drooping, she is nodding off. She just fights it so hard: constantly fidgeting, rubbing her hands and feet off the cot bed bars, trying to hold hands but then playing with our fingers etc. So I can't 100% say that she needs to drop her nap. But all I do know is that when she doesn't nap at weekends, she's so tired by bedtime that she cannot fight the sleep.

A lot of this I know is our own fault - she's always been a difficult sleeper, and has always resisted any kind of sleep training (to be fair, we probably didn't try hard enough). So she's always had help to fall asleep - rocking at first, shush-patting, and now hand-holding. If we leave the room she becomes hysterical. Does anyone have any advice as to how to proceed from here? I'm 25 weeks pregnant and finding the thoughts of this with a newborn very stressful.

Her routine is: bath at 7ish, dressed, stories, cuddles, into bed by 7.45 at the latest. We've tried both earlier and later bedtimes, which made no difference to the 2.5 hour bedtime circus. She's in a cot bed, so just gets out and come to the door if we leave her to it.

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SprogletsMum · 01/05/2018 09:17

I'd get firm with nursery. At 2.4 she doesn't need 2 hours of sleepy time every day.
At the nursery my dcs use some of the 2 year olds nap but the majority don't.
Her behaviour sounds exactly like how ask of mine were once the naps were ready to go.

badb · 01/05/2018 09:41

Thanks, SprogletsMum. To be honest - and I love our nursery and she loves it there - I wonder sometimes whether they are being truthful about how long she really sleeps for. They say she's only had 30 minutes sometimes, but if she has that at weekends she drops off really quickly.

I can understand that they need a bit of time in the day to get stuff done, and they don't want to wake a sleeping child - like anyone, she is a bit cranky if she's woken up. She's the only child in the room that doesn't sleep for 2 hours (apparently), and she's high-spirited so I guess she doesn't really comply with quiet time if she's not sleeping.

I'll have another word with her key worker this evening when I pick her up.

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FortheloveofJames · 01/05/2018 10:45

I agree, it’s time to take it further with the nursery. Although many wee ones nap untill they are older a lot drop their naps at this age or seriously reduce them. I’d struggle to believe she is the only one that have or have had this issue with. If you can see a clear difference between nursery routine vs home I’d be getting firm with them aswell.

badb · 01/05/2018 16:45

So, I just spoke with her key worker at pick up. Key worker said that when she woke her up after 45 minutes, she was crying hysterically and took another 30 minutes to properly come around. She can be like this at home if woken, it’s true. Key worker was very unhappy about having to wake her.

I don’t know what to do. I can understand not wanting to wake her. But I don’t know what else to try. I asked about maybe sending her up to the next room for nap time, and apparently they do quiet time and naps up there too! I think she’s probably in transition - not quite ready to drop the nap, but doesn’t really need it either. She’ll probably go off easy tonight, because she had such a bad night last night, she’s exhausted. Oy.

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anxiousmumma12 · 01/05/2018 16:53

Can you change nursery ?
I would be pissed at a nursery worker saying they don't want to deal with waking her .
You pay them ! It's there jobs

badb · 01/05/2018 18:24

To be fair to her, she didn’t say that she didn’t want to deal with her; more that it was upsetting because DD was so upset. She said that DD seemed really tired and groggy, and she didn’t like to see her crying like that. Which I can understand. We really like the nursery otherwise; we changed from another one to here and DD has been so happy and has come on so much since moving.

Argh! We’ve been dealing with sleep issues since she was born. I really, really just want a solution before I lose my mind.

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Littleoakhorn · 01/05/2018 20:15

The problem may well sort itself out. Firstly, your dd will drop her naps sometime this year and secondly many 2 year olds fight bedtimes for a few weeks/ months. You might find that the busyness of nursery means that she really does need that nap and that she’s still a little bit frazzled by bedtime. I’d try making bedtime earlier rather than dropping her naps. It sounds counterintuitive but sometimes toddlers can’t sleep because they’re overtired.

badb · 02/05/2018 08:47

Maybe you are right, littleoakhorn, but I've spent 2.4 years thinking fervently "this too shall pass" and it's just been one sleep problem after another. It's hard when at weekends sleep is not a battle and there's a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel. We've tried earlier bedtimes - a week of having her in bed by 7, and it made no difference. We also did almost a week of keeping her up till 8.30 - no difference.

She is definitely more frazzled during the week, I know. My husband only gets in from work at 6.45pm and so there's a lot of excitement around his arrival, meaning that winding down time is not really very successful. But the alternative is that he doesn't see her at all during the week. I don't know.

Thanks all. We'll keep talking with the nursery. She can't be the first child in the pre-montessori room to drop the nap a bit earlier than usual. I asked them today about the next room (3-4 year olds) and apparently they have quiet/nap time there too for an hour! I'm not sure where they are finding all these sleepy children.

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Itscurtainsforyou · 02/05/2018 08:55

We are in a very similar position to you OP. However our toddler then wakes in the night and comes into us (without fail) and will not still in his room alone.

Can you have a word with the nursery manager if her key worker isn't happy about waking her?

LapinR0se · 02/05/2018 09:04

Be very very firm. I am still having this problem and my child will be FOUR in September. The nursery are still putting them down for naps and when she falls asleep she won’t go to bed until 10pm.
Ask them to have a drink and snack ready for her when they wake her up and to take her out into the fresh air. She will be fine after a few mins

badb · 02/05/2018 10:10

Thanks both. Yes, I think we'll talk with the nursery manager to see how they've managed similar situations in the past. Drink and fresh air a good idea. We might compromise on an hour to see if that helps with the grogginess and crankiness in nursery. She won't ever sleep past 6.30am for some reason, so there's a knock-on effect that means she's stuck in a cycle of sleep deprivation and over-tiredness till the weekend.

itscurtainsforyou, DD is the same - we don't bring her into our bed unless she's sick, because she sees it as a game and will just climb all over us for two hours. But if she doesn't go to sleep 'easily', she is guaranteed to wake in the night at least once, and one of us has to lie on her floor holding her hand for two hours.

Lapinr0se, I couldn't believe it when they said the next room still does naps! I'm sorry you are still dealing with it at four. There's a limit to "this too shall pass", really.

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