Bedtime taking hours with 2yr old and 4 yr old - please help!

[Treehorn]

Really hoping someone has some good ideas out there - I feel like I’ve tried everything I can think of.

The main problem is that DS2.8 can take hours to get to sleep and insists on me being next to him, normally holding his hand. DD4.4 is great in comparison - she reads some books to herself then goes to sleep BUT I just can’t work out how to do a calm, quick bedtime. There always seem to be tears from someone and DS just doesn’t know how to get himself to sleep, which I feel terrible about as I feel I’ve failed at teaching him this.

The other thing is that they share a room, and DS has just moved into the bottom bunk. (He was like this in the cot too though). He tends to get really hyper from about 4:30pm so I’ve tried putting him to bed earlier (at the minute bathtime starts about 6) but so far this has had no effect. We do have a regular routine - after bath we all have a story in my bed then they both go into theirs. DD has 5 minutes with light on to read then lights out.

I lie or sit next to DS until he drops off as he is a proper wriggler. He wants to play with toys, have water, chat etc and I ignore as much as possible, just repeating “time to sleep” or “still and quiet” when he’s yelling or banging feet on the wall or whatever but if basically has no effect. The only thing that does is me leaving the room which makes him cry.

The annoying thing is that my mum had to put him bed alone last week (as I was out with DD) and she’s put him in bed, he lay down closed eyes and was asleep in 10 minutes! What am I doing wrong?!!?

I really need to have them both asleep by 7:30 so I can eat and get housework/work done in the evenings but I can’t think of how to organise the logistics. If anyone has any ideas I would be hugely grateful!

You’re giving him attention I guess?

We didn’t have any toys in the dcs room until the youngest was about 5. We also had proper blackout blinds. And we had calming stories to listen to.

We did sit with ours but they fell asleep quickly. You might need to remove as many exciting things as possible and try a form of rapid return. Basically leave the room ever time he messes about and say you will come back when he’s lying down? Make sure you do.

I'd try bringing DS's bedtime even earlier - aim for in bed lights out by 6.45. You could do bathtime PJs teeth together with both DC and then 4 yr old could stay in a different room with books until you've got him asleep. Then she gets time with you after he's asleep. I think he's overtired and that's why it takes so long/he fights it, earlier bedtime hopefully means he will fall asleep quicker. I wouldn't try leaving him to go to sleep alone just yet, first try to work out his ideal bedtime (ie where he falls asleep quickest).

Read to your ds in his own bed as moving him after a story in your bed will wake him up.
No water/toys etc. (Unless he has a teddy)
After the initial goodnight and kiss then no more words. Just shhhh. Face away from him so you aren’t tempted to engage with him.
It sounds harsh and won’t work immediately but after 3/4 days it should help.
Can your dd read in your room for a bit?

Thanks for quick reply!

He’s not allowed toys in the bed and I ignore as much faffing as possible, just repeating stock phrases, and sitting with back to him, but holding his hand. When he was in the cot I did rapid return to get him to lie down which did work but then he would still take ages to fall asleep. I haven’t tried that since he’s been in the bed as I didn’t want to give him the opportunity to get out of bed but maybe I need to give that another go.

Oh and agree about being tough on messing around. don't just say sleep time now, lie still - tell him if he's not quiet and still you will have to go. And if necessary follow through.

Ok, if I was you I would do this... take youngest one up to bed and leave your DD on the sofa with a blanket and some books. I would do usual bed time routine with DS upstairs but books in his bedroom, not yours. I would then kiss good night and say I’ll be back in a bit to check on him. If he came out of his room I would put him back calmly but not engage in conversation. I would carry this on for as long as it takes that evening. I would then do it for a few days until you think he’s got it. Then you can bring DD into the mix too. It will be shit to begin with but the aim is he will hopefully learn that bed time is time for sleep. Good luck.

Cut out all interaction. No stock phrases, nothing. Ignore, ignore.
Gradual retreat?
I agree with allowing eldest to read elsewhere till he's settled.
If he will go to sleep for others then it seems it may be all for your benefit. What did your Mum do that was different or does he simply know that she won't respond to his delaying tactics?

I sympathise as I had this for about a year with my then 3 and 4 year olds. Some nights I had to sit with elder Dd for 2-3 hours, I was exhausted (single parent) and had reached the end of my tether.
I got some good advice on here and one of my mistakes was doing bedtime stories in the living room because they get all settled/sleepy and cosy then you move them to their cold bed.

It took about 1-2 weeks but once I started the new routine of putting Dd to bed then reading the stories at bedside, having a little chat then leaving, she soon got the message. We had discussed the change in routine before putting it into place and I was very firm with what was going to happen, perhaps crucially I also started a sticker chart and she got a star each day when she had been compliant with bedtime routine. Honestly it worked a treat as she had picked out her coveted my little pony crap and knew that only once she had 7 star in a row would she get it!

You know they can do it if they did it for your mum - it was the same for me :)

Will definitely try these suggestions, thanks. I have tried variations in the past which have worked to various degrees but I think I have lapsed over the past months and couldn’t see a way out of this rut.

My mum didn’t do anything different I don’t think, but he clearly knows what he should be doing at bedtime so there’s no reason he can’t do that with me.

I think separating them will work and I really want to be able to have time with DD alone which is impossible at the moment as she’s asleep way before him. I know DS will be horrified but I’m resolved to be tough on the messing about - thanks for the nudge!

I agree with all previous advice but would just add that when we sat in the room with our DTs it took ages for them to fall asleep (even with no contact/ backs to them etc). We started to leave them they are often asleep within 10 minutes.

Like you was have on older one and would settle them and reassure we would check in them but have to settle DD.

It took about a month or returning to bed etc but so worth it now it's done. Good luck OP.

I had been wondering about some sort of chart Apples but wasn’t sure I he was too young. Will have a think about how I can adapt the idea for him, and start talking about the change with him so he knows what to expect.

Was your DD content to lie down or was a big struggle to get her to stay in one place?

Thinking back Dd1 was under 4 when this was an issue. Yes I do think the sticker chart may be a good option, particularly if you go for a shopping trip to select the toy before instigating the proposed change in routine.
Yes, Dd 1 was (and still is) a very energetic child, always on the move, fidgety and restless. When I was going through the disturbed bedtimes she would become overheated in bed with her persistent rumbling around trying to fight sleep. It took retraining her brain to view bed as a relaxing place to sleep and not the place where she is separated from mummy. I was surprised how quickly she adapted to the changes.

She is a great sleeper and goes to bed with no issues whatsoever now. Best of luck!!!