Where am I going wrong with this nap schedule?

[sunnyfields25]

Hello

I seem to be on here asking questions a lot these days and am grateful for all the advice I've received from you other (wiser) mums. So, if anyone can tell me where I'm going wrong with DS's schedule I will be forever indebted.

DS is 9.5 months old. We had a vague routine which I recently started fiddling with as his morning waking was getting earlier and earlier. Sometimes 4.30am, normally nearer 5am. The 6am waking we used to have is a rare treat at the moment! So, this is what we're currently doing:

4.30/5.00/5.30am - DS wakes up
9-9.45am - 1st nap (I wake him up)
12.45-1.15pm - 2nd nap (DS wakes up crying after 30 mins)
6/6.30pm - bedtime

Before, we would put him down for his first nap 2.5 hours after waking, but this meant it was ridiculously early, sometimes 7am, and he was using this long nap to catch up on missed night sleep.

So, I've started delaying the first nap until 9am regardless of day start time, and then waking him after 45 mins in the hope of a long afternoon nap. It's not working though. He often only sleeps for 30 mins in the afternoon and wakes up from his nap crying. I presume this is because he's overtired but I'm not sure how to fix it. Every now and again he will have a 2 hour nap in the afternoon, which gives me a glimmer of hope this is the right thing to be doing, but then we're back to 30 mins the next day.

I hate that he sometimes starts the day with a 4.5-hour awake period. I know it's too long for a baby his age. I also hate that I'm depriving him of sleep in the morning if he then won't nap in the afternoon. But I'm not sure how else to get out of the cycle of early wakings and then an early first nap.

If you've managed to make it to the end of my lengthy post then thank you very much and feel free to offer thoughts/advice/even criticisms!

That is a long awake period at the start of the day, but I see what you are trying to do. Why do you wake from the first nap? I think I'd be tempted to let that go longer, say 1-1.5 hours, then your second nap would start later, and may last longer. If not, at least you'd reduce the gap before bedtime without bringing bedtime too far forward.

Thanks for replying @MrsJW15, I was hoping someone would

I know, the first awake period is awful isn't it. The hope is that eventually he'll start the day later and then that period will reduce.

I've been waking DS from the first nap because he was having a long nap in the morning and only 30 mins in the afternoon, and I was worried the long morning nap was causing early wakings to continue (ie him catching up on night sleep). I thought I could just shift the long nap to the afternoon, but it hasn't work - he now just has two short naps, and therefore not enough daytime sleep.

I think I'll try what you've suggested tomorrow - let him sleep for longer in the morning. But still wait until 9am to start the nap. I'm curious to see what would happen, and at least that way he should get more sleep and like you say, the gap before bedtime shouldn't be as long.

I would encourage baby to sleep till 6.30-7am, wake him after 30 mins in the morning, encourage a longer lunch time nap and introduce a short 15 min nap at 4.45 to give him some energy for dinner.

If you have a long morning nap it can result in baby waking up earlier and earlier.

In terms of ‘encouraging’ baby to sleep, when baby wakes and it’s not getting up time treat it the same as you would if baby woke an hour after going to bed. Resettle him. If you know he doesn’t need fed or changed DO NOT get him up or start interacting with him. Show him it’s not morning yet.

@sunnyfields25 oh I feel your pain! My first daughter was just like this, early wakings and short naps! Honestly? Nothing really helped apart from time and eventually she slept later and later. She's 5 now and has been a champion sleeper since she was about 3! The only thing that kept us going was taking it in turns to have "lie-ins" and lie on the sofa with her with TV on until it was a normalish time. But I know lots of people who early wakings got better sooner so don't lose hope!! It gets easier eventually!

Floral's suggestion is the other option. You could try leaving him in the morning or trying to resettle. Although I assume you have and it hasn't helped yet. Definitely no expert but I'd think overall baby not being overtired helps. Lots of people swear that basing that first nap time on your ideal wake time really helps, even if it's a long awake period at the start. Hope it works for you!

Same issue here with my 5 month old who is up at 530 every day last month. It’s driving me nuts! I could cope with 6, or is he had given me a decent nights sleep but also up a lot with him :/
I leave him in crib till 630 he usually just lies there quietly occasionally may drop off again for ten mins or so. I’ve also made first nap short and late so he doesn’t see it as extension of sleep - hasn’t helped the wake up! I’ve tried bedtimes from 6-7 no help either
The clocks change sooon so maybe that will automatically Change it in our minds at least!

How does he go to sleep for naps and bedtime? (Ie, is he fed to sleep / rocked / dummy / self settles etc).

Agree with not getting him up. Anything pre-6 am should be treated as a night wake. No talking / eye contact etc.

I would suggest basing first nap on your ideal wake time, as above, and letting that nap be longer (say 1 - 1.5 hrs) as he sounds overtired come his afternoon nap.

Also, 6.30 is quite an early bedtime - going through to 5.30 am is 11hrs, which is a pretty standard amount. DD (same age) goes down at 7.40 and sleeps until between 6.40am-7am.

Well that's typical, the day that I decided to let DS have a long nap in the morning is the one when he wakes after 30 mins! I'd got settled down with a cup of tea thinking I was in for a little break too!

@FloralSocks - what you've suggested sounds good but it's pretty much what I've been trying and failing to do. Except for the third nap as DS started refusing to have them a while ago.

*@mummyoftwo5 - thanks it's reassuring to know that your daughter did eventually get better at sleeping. I'm trying so hard to 'fix' it but it might be one of those things that just resolves itself in time.

*@Tryingno1 - it's weird isn't it, in the past I'd have felt like 6am was an early start but now I crave a 6am lie-in! Yep making the first nap shorter and later doesn't seem to be doing the trick for us. If anything it's made DS's sleep worse. Ha I'd forgotten about the clocks changing soon!

*@Sipperskipper - DS nods off to sleep with a dummy, but without input from us. It's difficult because although I agree with anything pre-6am being a night wake, once he's awake he's awake. Resettling him hardly ever works, and we can only leave him for so long before he starts getting upset. It's a good point you make about the 11 hours of sleep. I have wondered if we're putting him to bed too early. But we're kind of trapped in this cycle - early start to the day, short afternoon nap and so early bedtime because he's shattered.

Tomorrow if he's willing to sleep for longer in the morning them I'm going to let him, 1-1.5 hours, as has been suggested. Just because it's different to what I've been doing (and that isn't working).

A few people have mentioned basing the first nap on our ideal awake time. I suppose that would be 6.30am (as I'm apprehensive to lose too much of our evening as a trade off)... So does anyone know what time I should be aiming for the first nap to begin in that scenario? And presumably that would mean a 7.30pm bedtime, to allow the 11 hours?

Thanks so much for all the help everyone

I'd aim for a 2-3-4 routine.
Don't get up before 6.30, even if you have to bring him into your bed.
Nap 8.30-9.30
Lunch at 12
Nap 12.30-2.30 - I would walk with the pram for this nap until he gets in the routine of sleeping for 2 hours.
Bedtime routine at 6.30, into bed at 7.

No answers, just sympathy. My DS keeps waking at 5/5.30. I’m hoping the clock changes will help!

Also (and I haven’t tried this, only read about it), you could try a power nap first thing.

From what I’ve read, baby really will need to go back to sleep around 2 hrs after waking. So even if you don’t get up until 6.30, if he’s been awake since 5.30, he will be tired by 7.30am. I reckon pushing him through to 9ish will create overtiredness and make things worse.

I’ve read about using a strict 10 min power nap to bridge the gap. So let him go back to sleep at 7/7.30, but wake after 10 mins so he’s still tired enough for his morning nap at an appropriate time.

Like I said, I haven’t used it yet (can’t bring myself to wake him that soon), and my DS’s sleep is all over the place, so what do I know?! But might be worth a try,

What happens when he wakes at 4:30 / 5? Could he settle himself back to sleep if he was left to cry? Is he hungry? What is your feeding routine during the day?

Also what is your routine when you put him down to sleep for each of these naps?

I feel your pain! I’ve been using the little ones routine which is very similar, 30 minutes in the morning and two hours in the afternoon.
They say power nap of ten minutes if needed after a really early wake to get them through to the first proper nap, or (and I think this might be nuts) to half wake an hour bedtime they habitually get up to ‘reset’ their sleep clock.
Good luck!

Have you tried leaving him to cry or trying to resettle at second nap? I have an 8 month old who has been a catnapper for months now. I did the dreaded "cc" with h thinking it would never ever work for naps and bloody hell. After 7 minutes of crying (I went it at 5) he then went back to sleep for another 40 minutes and woke up full of beans. Since then he has managed a couple of 1.5 hour afternoon sleeps. Life changed because I don't have to drag him through the afternoon kicking and screaming as he is totally miserable .

Forgive typos.

Sunny mine is doing 2 hour naps in afternoon after I went in and patted him once he woke. I went in and patted and then left and kept doing that...Sometimes he moaned sometimes he just looked around and eventually he got the idea that he needs to keep sleeping! I also inserted a dummy at times if he cried as I don’t like him crying! Sometimes I patted him untill he went to sleep. Anyway he can now self settle. It took about a week and a lot of patting and sshing!

Does not help the night wakings or the 530 start though! I thought it would be the key but he just lies there 530-630 chatting to himself until I start the day. I push him to 830 for nap (he’s only 5 months so 2 hours awake time, but this makes it 3 hours really but one hour is in the dark so I figure it’s less stimulating) to try make sure he doesn’t use it as a nap

They say early bedtime for a while to make sure they are not overtired and getting their 11 hours and then slowly make bedtime later and later. As if they are overtired they wake early too. I’ve tried all bedtimes from 6-730 and wake up is 530-545! So at least at 6pm bedtime he’s getting closer to 11 hours than at 7. I’ve gone back to 6 and giving him a few days of 11 hours sleep at night (although he often is waking for 2 hours blowing rasberries for no reason but that’s another issue !!!) and then I’m going to start moving it closer to 7

Or I’m going to wait for clocks to change!

Ps I sleep at 830 ow I can tell cope and I miss dh but I just count the days to weekend so I can see him
More!

Can’t cope!

I am no expert, but if this was DD I would do the following. (Obviously her sleep needs may well be different).

-leave her in cot as long as possible. Let’s say The latest I could get her up was 5.30, but I wanted her wake time to be 6.30.

• based on DDs wake times, we aim for 3/3/4 hours of awake, so I would do -

• breakfast, milk etc
• 0930 nap - 1hr 15mins
• 1045 awake
• play, lunch, out in fresh air
• 1.45 nap 1hr 30

-3.15 awake

7pm start bedtime routine
Bed at 7.30

There is a great fb group called respectful sleep training / learning. It’s got loads of info on wake times etc.

Hi, just wanted to say thanks everyone for the latest replies. I have read them all and had planned to put some of the suggestions into action, but things have all gone to pot. DS is now only napping for 30 mins at every nap and then wakes up very upset. And as an extra bonus he's refusing to breastfeed! But that's a whole other story.

I'll post another reply when I can make sense of this situation

There's no sense to be made! It won't last long, nothing ever does with babies.

The best advice about sleep that I received (on here) - actually, the most helpful advice I received about babycare in general - was as follows:

Let baby sleep when they're tired, for as long as they need to.

Babies sleep better at night when they're well rested during the day.

Don't follow a timed routine. Watch for baby's tiredness cues. With DS he would laugh/smile less, and drop his head down from time to time. It was hard to spot at first but if I left it til he was yawning I would invariably find it difficult to get him to sleep.

Babies get tired based on the amount of activity/stimulation they've had. So if you've stayed indoors for a few hours he'll be less tired than if you went to the shops, or had a visitor, and won't need a nap as soon.

This advice worked for us until DS was quite a bit older. He's now on one nap per day at 17mo and I do a lot to tire him out before bedtime!

Well I'm not sure what's happened but in the past few days DS has been sleeping 11 hours at night and taking two long-ish naps each day. He has been a bit poorly so it could just be that he's catching up on the sleep that his body needs to fight infection and we'll be back to 30 min naps and early wakings soon. But I'm enjoying it while it lasts!

@FartnissEverbeans - Ha thanks for that advice, it is actually pretty much what I've been doing - allowing DS to sleep when he wants, for how long he wants. Waking him up from his morning naps like I had been doing seemed to mess everything up, so I've just left him to it since then.

As he's been having longer naps we have gradually nudged his bedtime later. So at the moment he's going to bed at 7.30pm. This feels really late but I don't know if that's just because it was previously so early.