At end of our tether with DD (4)

[BeetlebumShesAGun]

Our DD1 is 4 years old and has always been a crap sleeper. She takes ages to go to sleep, and when she eventually does, wakes frequently throughout the night, needing us to sit with her. She then comes into our bed anywhere from 1030pm ( meaning one of us has to go to sleep with her) to about 2am and sleeps soundly there for the rest of the night.

We have tried everything since she was a baby, super nanny method, controlled crying, gradual retreat, reward charts, promises of treats, worry people, dream catcher, we decorated her room, favourite frozen bedding, special teddies, leaving the landing light on, nightlights, gro clock, “the rabbit who wants to fall asleep” the long and short of it is she just wants to be with us and cannot fall or stay asleep alone.

I cracked this year as DD2 (nearly 2 yo) was also co-sleeping and it was ruining our relationship. I did 3 days of controlled crying with her and it worked a charm. She goes to sleep by herself at 7pm and doesn’t wake until 6.

This is the problem - i’m reluctant to try anything that would wake DD2, as she’s done so well and I want one child that sleeps alone!

We don’t have the money for a sleep consultant.

I have thought about putting them in a room together but that requires building work which we can’t afford right now, and again I don’t want it to set DD2 back.

Any ideas would be much appreciated!

Anyone??

Guided mediation/ hypnotherapy? I have a 5yo who can't drop off, but at least he stays asleep.

The other suggestion in my thread was a weighted blanket.

Thanks Maximum. I guess I should clarify - she drops off ok so long as I am sitting/lying with her. It’s more the night waking and co sleeping I am trying to change - although I think if I can get her to fall asleep alone then she will be better at sleeping alone! I will look into a weighted blanket.

It sounds like you've tried an awful lot of things over time. Which one was most successful and how long did it work for? Saying this kindly - looking from the outside, it sounds like DD knows that eventually you'll cave and she will get what she wants from you both.

In my experience, one DD never woke the other DD. They would sleep through crying, being sick and changing bedding, anything.
It's probably worth giving CC a go.

Has there been any, even very gradual, improvement? DD1 is a fairly rubbish sleeper but now, at 4y9m is finally sleeping through in her own bed about 4 nights out of 7. So I know she can do it and I'm sure she'll get there eventually. If we hadn't had the slow improvement over the years I think by now I would have tried rapid return, although she's way more stubborn than me!

Watching with interest. DS is 4, was a terrible sleeper as a baby (although could and sometimes did sleep through the night), nothing worked and then suddenly at 18 months he started sleeping through every night. Once he hit 3 it all went wrong again and now he cannot fall asleep or sleep through the night alone.

Lack of sleep put me in a very dark place last time and I was so scared of going back there that we gave in and started co-sleeping. In our bed he generally sleeps through, neither of us has the energy to address it and are hoping that he might grow out of it.

Thank you for the replies. There was a little improvement when she was around 18mo/2yo - she would fall asleep as I read to her. Sometimes I would have to read 2 books, but she would drop off, and stay asleep probably til about 2/3am which we could cope with. Then DD2 arrived and I think she copped on that the baby was allowed to sleep with us, and it has been back to square one again, even though DD2 no longer sleeps with us.

BangOn, this is exactly where we are. We have been so sleep deprived we just let her sleep with us, but as she has started waking earlier, we don’t get any adult time to watch TV, etc. I had been banking on school tiring her out when she starts in September, but I don’t know if I can wait that long!

FunkyCat you’re absolutely right about us not sticking with anything long enough. The longest I attempted anything was about 7 weeks with gradual retreat, and she was getting better at falling asleep, but was crap at sticking to it in the dead of night so it failed.

I have told DH I think we need to do controlled crying with her but he has incredibly limited patience and won’t hear of it. I think if I could get a week to myself with DD1 I could do it tbh.

There was a sleep book which suggested fixing a point in the night before which they don't come into your bed, after which it's fine. Then you move the time later. It was for babies but I wonder if you could do something similar with a groclock - she can come in with you if the sun is up?

School has not tired dd1 out as hoped. She's mentally exhausted but not physically and so wired with stuff going round her head she's struggling to wind down at bedtime.

Exhaustion makes everything so much harder to tackle. I’m tired as it is, if I’m up all night with DS then I become tearful, short tempered, a worse parent and infinitely worse at my job. I don’t have the strength to deal with it and DS just doesn’t like sleeping on his own. Like you we’ve tried decorating his room, Gro Clocks, night lights, monster spray, everything!

I know you said you can’t afford a sleep consultant but I know people who swear by one

I have no advice other than a hand hold. My son was exactly like this until his 5th birthday I think starting school tired him out more too.
At 5 he finally started sleeping in his own room but still needed me to fall asleep

I genuinely could've wrote this post I tried everything too

He's now 6 and I tuck him in at night and walk out and he goes to sleep himself and (usually) sleeps all night, if he's up it's just once and I tuck him in and leave again. I never ever thought it would get to this point so I feel your pain but just wanted to reassure you it does and will get better and you'll get there eventually

Could the children share a room with bunk beds? ( you say you would otherwise need building work for them to share a room).
Is there a slightly older cousin who could come for sleepovers to entice your DD to act like her "grown up" older cousin???
Could DD have a separate bed in your room, rather than getting into your bed? It's just a degree of separation that you could build on.
My DS1 was a terrible sleeper. Looking back, (he's 15 now) it was part of his personality. He has an anxious personality and likes the reassurance of being around people. Even as a teenager, he spends v little time alone in his bedroom.

Andrea Grace is an amazing sleep consultant. Try looking at her books? We were lucky enough to have her advice and she had many words of wisdom (and subsequently with other friends and family). Good luck!

If she doesn't want to sleep alone maybe having both children in one bed (a small double) might help.

I remember the house of tiny tearaways on tv and one child was returned to bed 39 times. And after that slept fine. Do the girls have their own rooms, I'm not clear on sleeping arrangements. Maybe DH goes to bed with her at first to get her to sleep and you ahve an early night. Then you do the return to bed through the night, however often it is.
It's not good for her to have such broken sleep, she needs to be helped to sleep well.

My DD (4.5yrs) has just started sleeping through. We got a groclock. She has to fall asleep by herself and stay asleep all night, not getting up until the sunshine comes on the clock or else she doesn’t get any screen time the next day. It’s the only thing that worked. Reward charts weren’t ‘immediate’ enough. Since she started falling asleep by herself, she is much better at staying asleep.

It is so hard. Hope she starts sleeping for you soon.

Reading this in fear as my 10 month old is crap, despite trying a lot of things, and my 3.5yr old who was a good sleeper has started having regular nightmares. I bought her into my bed a few times and now she wakes asking to come in, even without having had a nightmare, and says she doesn't like her bed and wants to sleep in mine, even at bedtime. I think we're going to have to be firm and get through some tears. I can see how quickly bringing her into bed has become what she wants and could easily be habit forming!

The only thing I will say in advice is that in this house we find that whichever child is up, the other one doesn't get woken, no matter how loud!