Making our bed safe for baby daytime naps. 4m+

[Jellybabie3]

So we've had some progress with my velcro baby that needs to be held for all naps, he will sleep on our bed. This is great as I now have two hands to do things (read a book! Cross stitch! Have a cup of tea and a biscuit!)

I know alot of people do this so I am curious how you make the bed safe if for example you wanted/needed to pop to the loo, answer the door for the postman, stir the dinner, whatever...

So, do you:

Just stay with them the whole time (i anticipate trying to nap too sometimes or do as I am now and sit next to him)

Or somehow make the bed safe for fear of them waking and rolling etc and if so how?

Thanks in advance

Until baby can safely get off the bed unaided (you can start teaching reverse crawl, dangle and drop from relatively early, 7-8 months in so), you need to supervise baby at all times. It's a raised surface do dangerous.

You can try wedges under the bottom sheet to make barriers. Pool noodles do similar. Pillow barriers are unsafe (suffocation risk). Wall or bed guards barriers area risk at this age - baby flipping between barrier and bed.

But, all the risks known, you decide on your attitude to risk. What you might be happy with, someone else may not and vice versa.

The safest place to lie together for naps and then separate yourself and leave is on the floor.

Either matreess on the floor without the bed base. Or directly on a carpet floor (in living room maybe?).

Naps should be in the same room as you at all times until 6 months.

OK thank you

my baby is 14 months now.. I went for baby proofing the bed for naps and really thought I had done a good job! 2 falls off the bed later in the space of a week.. yeah didn't go so well. either stay with them or go for floor as PP says

Yeah i thought defo stay with him now (SIDS) but perhaps when hes older there might be a way. I'm hoping he will be happy to nap in his cot in a few months. I will have a go of feeding and laying to sleep on his playmat instead.

Thanks

A lot of nurseries get babies to sleep on gym mats on the floor (the type you get in school for PE lessons, easy to wipe clean). They can then be safely kept to sleep there (with an adult in the room until 6 months).

Jellybabie3 - you are going to end up cosleeping and feeding to sleep long term (I'm highly accurate with my crystal ball with these kinds if baby sleep things ). So I'd suggest you make life easy for yourself and set your bedroom up to accommodate this. Sidecar cot attached to your bed. Or floor bed. Or just embrace safe cosleeping and stay together for naps.

When ds was that age he napped on the living room floor on a comfy folded up blanket on the carpet. I'd often have a doze on the sofa at the same time. It was only him and me during the day , so this might not work if you have a busy house or other kids. I could see the lounge from the kitchen so was easy to get dinner on etc

Get a sleepyhead and put it on the floor in the room you're in.

@FATEdestiny you may be right but DS has decided in the past few weeks he wont feed to sleep in the day. He likes to be held and very gently rocked. Not my doing, he just cried on my breast one day and i lifted him and he went to sleep. Hes done the same ever since. My issue is laying him down after. He just will not in any way be put in his cot or crib during the day because he startles when i lean over no matter how tight to me i hold him. At night he is lifted from side lying on my bed to his next to me.

We are going to put his cot in our room as with 6 wake ups a night (down from 11) i cannot see it working any other way. I have 100% got my head around that and am not trying to do anything otherwise now. I will not sleep train unless I have to (when I physically cannot do it any more). Hes growing and changing every day and I am accepting its now in his hands.

Laying on my bed in the day is great as i said it allows me to atleast do something other than cuddle (which is marvellous in its own right i admit)

Albeit when the side car cot is in we still need to make that safe for him.

Thanks

As YesitsJacqueline says, if there is just you and baby around in the day, feeding/cuddling to sleep on the living room floor is probably most convenient. You can then either sit on sofa and watch TV, or have yourself a little nap on the sofa while baby sleeps.

He likes to be held and very gently rocked

I'd try / retry a bouncy chair if that's the case. Baby going from awake to asleep in the position they stay asleep is important for sleep hygiene. It's why many end up cosleeping - because if you can't get baby to go from awake to asleep in the cot, then going from awake to asleep on the bed and staying there is next best.

Getting baby to sleep in your arms and putting down an already asleep baby is never hoping to be sustainable. Baby needs to go you sleep in the place they stay asleep. So if baby is liking feeding then rocking, try feeding then bouncing in bouncer (with dummy to allow for comfort sucking would be even better - but I get that you think your views on dummies are more important than any potential help to baby sleep, so won't be doing this).

That way baby is (a) going from awake to asleep in the position baby will stay asleep without being moved. And (b) can be bounced back to sleep (with dummy?) if stirring, therefore (c) can learn to link sleep cycles in the daytime. Therefore (d) improve the quality of daytime sleep. Which leads to (e) better quality night time sleep.

If not a bouncer for independant sleep, it would be more sustainable for long term sleep hygiene to cosleep cuddle to sleep and stay there, rather than rocking to dletps and transferring. Transferring and already asleep baby is never a good idea long term.

but I get that you think your views on dummies are more important than any potential help to baby sleep, so won't be doing this

Many many people dont use dummies. I didnt have one and could self settle at 3 months. If they were the solution to everything why are there so many posts like mine with people who do give dummies? Seriously.
Its a choice I am happy with.

Thank you for your help with the useful stuff.

We used a video monitor and placed pillows on the edge of our king size bed. Baby was safe in he middle of the bed away from pillows but if baby rolled then the pillows stopped any worry of rolling off until I got there.

why are there so many posts like mine with people who do give dummies? Seriously.

The vast, vast majority are parents who want an independant sleeper but dont use a dummy and also dont want to leave baby to cry.

Seriously.

The way to make non-dummy use work is to feed/cuddle/rock to sleep and/or cosleep. Attachmeng parenting, dependant on an adult rather than independant. Which is a perfectly good parenting choice.

The way to get independant sleep without comfort sucking/cuddles is with crying.

Lots (and lots and lots and lots) of first time parents assume they can have their cake and eat it. Independant sleeper without any crying and without the time and tools needed for it.

Seriously.

See crazycat, exactly the same as you in the early months with her baby. She hateed me and my know-it-all posts at the time too. There's been many before her and will be any after. But I do speak logical sence. No dummy is fine if you are happy to do harsh (involving crying) sleep training. Or the opposite and attachment parent. Dummy is also not a magic wand. But it's the single greatest tool for the happy medium. To discount it on your own attitude, over and above the needs of your baby is never going to be acceptable parenting imo.

Moot point anyway. You're probably too late to establish a dummy now even if you wanted to. Hence you'll either cosleep (and consider your baby "high needs" or "velcro") or sleep train with crying. I predict the former, at least initially. Me and my crystal ball...

@FATEdestiny

Oh to be perfect.

Arent you on holiday??

And no crying when the dummy is taken away.....

Following as we're in a similar position, but Fate - what would you do if your baby absolutely would not take a dummy? I have no objections to them - I tried to get him to take 5 different types to no avail. I don't think it's always as simple as just giving them the dummy.

Yep, on hols. Sat by pool in my cossie as we speak😎☉ (sans children - even more luxurious)

May get a gin soon... anyhoo...

No crying also upon taking dummy away.

Essentially its down to understanding the science, biology and physiology of sleeping the baby/toddler and young children. Children need some forms of comfort feeling to get to sleep until around school age (important distinction between self settling and independant sleep here).

So you either wait to remove dummy until now comfort is needed. Or replace dummy with alternate adequate comfort if removed while baby still needs comfort.

No tears. My 3 youngest children (now 12, 8and 3) have never needed a moment of upset at bedtime.

Ever.

Due entirely to dummy use and understanding the need for comfort in the baby mind (there's a Sarah OS article about this).

Not perfect. Just knowledgeable and we'll educated on sleep. Not something I'm going to apologise for.

The mistake you make is assuming your baby will need no comfort at bedtime at some point soon. It's a mistake to assume this. A very common mistake.

I've never used dummies and lots of people I know have had to go in and return dummies to their babies' mouths repeatedly throughout the night.

In answer to your op, we had the bednest which has a side you can put up to keep baby safe if you leave them. Does your sidecar crib have this option?

I used a padded mat on the floor in the lounge for naps or I used to read whilst DC slept on the bed next to me.

Haven’t read fully so not sure how thread moved onto dummies but it isn’t necessarily a choice between dummies or crying it out. Neither of mine had a dummy and I didn’t co-sleep or cry it out - DC1 slept well and self settled from about 3 months. Friend’s DC could only sleep with a dummy in each hand and one jn their mouth and didn’t sleep through until about 2. Whatever, babies are different, studies about babies are often interesting but generally not statistically valid - so you just need to work out what works best for your own child.

@BrutusMcDogface yeah it does so i can use this atm (I'd actually forgotten about it as its been down the side of our mattress since say dot so thanks!! Baby brain...). Once we have the cotbed in as a side car it wont be possible but i think feeding him downstairs on some floor arrangement at that point may be better esp as it will be summer (cooler)

Much appreciated. And your support RE dummies (assuming they arent still attached to you at 18yo )

Haven’t read fully so not sure how thread moved onto dummies but it isn’t necessarily a choice between dummies or crying it out

Its an on -going thing it seems that no matter what i ask about sleep i get a lecture from Fate about my decision to not give a dummy. I have a son that doesnt sleep well and apparently it would all be solved by a dummy. I chose to wait it out as best i can and approach as gently as i can.
Thanks for your comment

AgentCooper: what would you do if your baby absolutely would not take a dummy?

Much depends on age. If you're past 3 months then it's going to be much harder to establish a dummy. Past 6 months and it's likely to be near impossible so I wouldn't bother.

Up to 6 months (and definitely up to 3 months) I would quite simply keep going until a dummy was accepted. So absolutely essential is a dummy to gentle, no crying but independant sleep.

After 3 children taking to a dummy instantly, I was floored by DC4 refusing a dummy. Just like feeding is essential for a baby and you would have to carry on until a baby was feeding even if they didn't take your it easily, dummy is the same for me. It is essential because I would not ever want my baby to be distressed, but I also want independant sleep and my own space. So it becomes non negotiable.

It took me 7 weeks of non-stop graft and hard work to get my youngest to take a dummy. But frigging worth it when she finally did. I would have kept going for as long as it took.

Some tips (search my posts on dummy taking tips, I've wrote long posts on thus before):

• try all the time. After every feed, before every feed, every damn day, all the time.

• try at different times of day. Bedtime or naptime are obvious. Try when happy/awake. Try when playing. Try when just woke up. Try morning, try nights when dozing, try afternoons and evenings.

• try holding in bf position and rocking in your arms with dummy in

• try other people giving dummy (especially if you are bf and smell of milk)

• try rocking/cuddling/cosleeping while giving dummy

• use tricks similar to encouraging a good latch. Trickle cheek with dummy and get baby up turn head to take dummy. Try tickling upper lip to get baby to reach with mouth to take it.

• gentle tapping outside of dummy encourages the sucking reflux.

• dummy shouldn't be sitting limply in mouth. If not bring sucked, remove and try to get baby to 'relatch' to dummy, as above.

• similarly, don't force dummy on baby. It's dangerous and also pointless. It's only useful when bring actively sucked for comfort. If spat out, remove and get it relatched by tickling lip/cheek etc again.

• try immediately after a feed. Whip nipped out send dummy in. Rock/bounce/sway (while winding) at same time. Movement helps.

• take advantage of gravity. Baby facing upwards will keep a dummy in more easily.

• know that once asleep, mouth goes limp and dummy drops. It is meant to, dummy is just for the 5-15 mins it takes to get to sleep. Once asleep it should be out of the mouth. It's like feeding to sleep then unlatching once asleep.

• try different dummies. I prefer cherry type teats because they stay in better. Other people swear by MAM dummies.

• the bottom line us don't give up. Try relentlessly. All the time, every day and keep going. Make it as essential as feeding. If your baby couldn't latch to breastfeed and also refused bottles, you wouldn't just accept that they won't feed. You would insist and keep going, kept trying, until you find something thst eventually worked. I take the same view with dummies.

I just would not give up until it was accepted. So essential it is to my gentle, independant parenting style.

return dummies to their babies' mouths repeatedly throughout the night

That's definitely a phase. From rolling (around 4 months) until baby is able to do own dummy (about 8 months).

no matter what i ask about sleep i get a lecture from Fate...

I beg your pardon?

Rude. I mostly steer clear of your threads.

OK thanks FATE

I was also never going to give a dummy. He stopped feeding to sleep of his own accord at 12 weeks. Cue lots of rocking (and crying) I asked for advice here, FATE advised the dummy, and I reluctantly did it. Best thing I've ever done. He literally never ever has it for any time other than sleeping. It soothes him to sleep and I can't argue with that. Still sleeps on me a lot but mostly because I like an excuse to put my feet up.

Re bed naps - get your cuppa and book and iPad etc ready before you get him down and just stay on the bed with him. When he was 6 Months I was putting him right in the middle of our king size bed and making a pillow barrier (using a video monitor and checking often of course) but that isn't advisable really. I just knew he was unlikely to move much in his sleep so I judged my own risk. I stopped doing this when he got mobile, and he started napping in his cot in his room at 7 Months.