Help!! 3 year old wakes up and stays awake for hours in the middle of the night

[Sofshiz]

My DD is 3years 3 months. She's always been a horrendous sleeper from the night she was born. She goes through periods of better sleep but is generally not good. She goes to bed at 7 and asleep by 7:30/8 pm. Occasionally she will wake once and come to our bed and sleep through (this is best case scenario). But most of the time she will wake around 2am and stay awake until about 4/5am unable to get back to sleep. She asks for water, needs toilet, wants a snack coz she's hungry etc etc. This then wakes her 1 year old sister and before you know it the whole house is awake and annoyed at eachother.

She has just started full time preschool and I'm desperate to get her into a better sleep pattern as I'm worried she's not getting enough sleep (actually she definitely isn't getting enough sleep. She's dropped her naps unless we're in a car etc but since starting preschool she seems to doze off in the car on the way home around 4Pm which I'm trying my best to avoid.

What do I do? Is this normal? Does she need medical help? Could there be underlying health issues? Is this just standard 3 year old behaviour.

No one is getting proper sleep at home. My postnatal anixety is worse when I don't sleep well. Help

Hi. This must be exhausting. You need to make sure you dont give in to her demands. You let her in bed, she wins. Do you give her a drink, something to eat etc?? You say no and that its bed time and you take her back to bed. And repeat!!!!! You may be in for a rough night or two but it will pay off if you do not give in to what she wants.

Don't think there is anything wrong with her - a bit younger, but mine used to party 2-4am for about 3 months.

I think I'd go with "everyone else wants to sleep, you must stay quietly in bed". We have never said that you must sleep - that's not necessarily in theur control, but letting everyone else sleep us. No food, cup of wster by her bed, enough lights into go to the toilet by herself.

Thank you for your replies. Yes is exhausting!

She drinks a lot of water throughout the night, always has she gets thirsty so I feel guilty taking that away coz sometimes she does just drink and go back to sleep. But I will try saying no to drink and snacks.

Do you think her bedtime is too early? It's a vicious cycle I can't get out of. I put her down early so she can rest as she hasn't slept the night before but then the cycle just repeats itself. Would you say 8:30 is more realistic for a 3 year old?

Having said that, even on the off chance that she's slept later it hasn't made much of a different. Only if she's stayed up till 10/11 then she'd go straight through to about 6/7

Sorry, I would leave a cup of water by her bed - if she wants a drink, she can have it, but it doesnt need to disturb you. I wasnt very clear in what i wrote, was I?

I had this with my son (years ago now!). It was utterly horrendous and I honestly thought I was going mad due to lack of sleep. He would wake and be quite happy, but just couldn't get back to sleep. The problem with the withdrawing/ not giving him anything was that he then just got upset (very!) and screamed the house down and could keep going and going... Anyway, in the end I went against everything that people will tell you to do, as I realised the problem was that he was genuinely too awake to go back to sleep. I worked out that if I could comfort him as soon as he woke, he'd be less awake, so drop back off to sleep more quickly. I put a lilo on the floor in his room, slept on that and when he woke up, gently said ssh and it's time to sleep and he started dosing off pretty much straight away. If he didn't or started acting up, I just said I'd go and he hated that so didn't. After a couple of weeks he was sleeping far more deeply and I didn't have to be next to him anymore. I left the air bed on the floor, but had to use it less and less and within two months he was sleeping through for the first time ever and that was AMAZING!

Smee we've had a permenant mattress topper in her room for ever since I can remember. It doesn't work for us always. After about 45 minutes of her making an effort to go back to sleep she gets bored and She starts complaining that she wants to go to sleep with my husband or that she wants to go to my bedroom and demands I go with her. All this while her 1 year old poor sister is trying to sleep. This wakes up the baby and then we're in a vicious cycle or comfort baby comfort toddler.

I'm thinking of movinf the baby to another room while this settles so she doesn't get affected.

Honestly feel like I've gone crazy in the head and feel so ill from the lack of sleep.

Oh poor you! I will never forget how gnawing that exhaustion is. I think I'd maybe try moving the baby. Have you tried your DD on audio books? Tell her if she's quiet she can have one on v.low level. Obviously pick calm ones that she already knows so that they don't excite her. Tell her she can have them if she stays in bed and quiet. The hope being she'll dose off listening..

Worth a try

lizzieloveshealthy.com/top-4-tips-to-more-sleep/

DS1 (4.5) is a rubbish sleeper who is prone to both bouts of night waking (usually stress related- we had months on end after DS2 born) and very early waking. If he wakes after 4/4.30 he's impossible to get back to sleep because it's too close to morning and he's just awake. It's exhausting.

Obviously you know your child and I'm sure you have an instinct for whether she's genuinely awake and can't get back to sleep, or whether she's mucking about. But the faffing about asking for drinks/snacks/toilet sounds to me as though she could well be enjoying the attention/angling to get into bed with you. My conclusion was basically that if I didn't want to co-sleep on a regular basis (I didn't- and like you I had a baby to deal with) then I had to never ever let DS1 get in our bed. It's so tempting to cave in the middle of the night and just get some rest but then you end up back at square one.

I'd make sure she has something filling before bed (toast/weetabix etc as supper- especially if she's having tea at stupid o'clock at nursery like mine do!) then you know she's not hungry. If she wakes send her to the loo straight away (then she can't pull that excuse later!). Water by the bed.

As regards bedtime, I'd actually wonder if she's going to bed a bit late if she's not asleep until 7.30/8. I found DS1 fell asleep better and slept through better if he went to sleep that little bit earlier- lights out 6.45 and asleep by 7. I think he was less over tired maybe? Mind you he is an early riser and is very rarely asleep after 6am so he did (and still does) need a very early bedtime.

What snacks do you give her when she complains she's hungry in the night? DS went through a phase of waking and at first he was genuinely hungry, then it just became a habit. I started offering him only carrots instead of anything interesting (or that he wanted), and within 3 days he'd lost interest.
Just something to throw into the mix if needed!

Oh, sorry, meant to say- It's bloody horrible having months of disturbed sleep. DS2 has been an atrocious sleeper due to illness and I completely understand the feeling completely loopy and ill from lack of sleep. I had days where I wept so much because I just felt so awful. We had an awful awful patch over Christmas with both DSs ill and sleep just horrific (and all in one room at MIL's). Honestly, the only time I've felt worse was when I had swine flu a few years ago. I've had a few decent nights in the last week and the difference it made to my energy levels/mood is just astonishing: I'd totally forgotten how it feels to be rested. Hope you manage to crack it soon and get some proper rest.

OP, I can totally sympathise!!! My DD (3.5) has never been a great sleeper, but she hadn't slept through in months, and since Christmas, she's up 3 or 4 times a night. Plus, she never ever sleeps in beyond 6.30, in fact, 6.30 is a longish lie really!! We're all knackered, especially her, and we're experiencing lots of behaviour problems which I'm sure are as a result of her tiredness. She is constantly pale and lethargic.

FurryGiraffe hit the nail on the head, our DD is faffing about asking for a drink, socks on, tucked in again, toilet etc, but I'm convinced she is just looking for attention. We've never taken her in bed with us, though it's hard to resist when she's through every couple of hours.

We always give her a drink at night when she asks (she drinks little through the day so is probably really thirsty) but I don't know how we will ever get her dry overnight!

A lot of it stems from anxiety I think, and the constant night wakings have become a habit for her now. No idea how to get things to change!

How is your daughter's behaviour during the day, OP? Your daughter's bed time seems okay for her age, I'd have thought.

Glummymummy, it's so hard isn't it.

Her behaviour is generally ok, she's not perfect and does play up but that's just general toddler behaviour I would imagine. The only concerning part is that despite how tired she is, she always seems to get this sudden rush of energy just before bath/bed. It makes no sense to me because just 10 mins before she'd be half asleep during her dinner.

I was persistent in not taking her to our bed for the first 2 years. Then when dd2 was born and I was on the verge of a breakdown with sleepless nights I gave in and she came in with us. It was fine at first. She'd come in and go straight back to sleep. But now she is running around room to room. When she comes to our bed my husband goes to the spare room so then she can't decide who to sleep with, mum, dad or in her room with her sister.

Constant nightmare.

I've just topped her up on a double banana smoothie before bath and then a piece of toast after bath before bed hoping a full stomach will help.

If I don't reply with an update in the morning it means I've died from exhaustion

Is the bath necessary? They have always woken my DD up.

Periods of night waking are perfectly normal for humans - it’s society that thinks we should sleep all night, not biology.

Have never restricted DD from coming into bed with us. It’s what all mammals do with their young. Still a doddle to get DD to sleep pretty much anywhere if we curl up with her.

That said, she absolutely can’t sleep early. Up to about 3.5 she was still napping and bedtime would have been 9pm or 10pm rather than 7pm.

Sofshiz. The falling asleep in her dinner and then perking up afterwards sounds to me like she's going through the tiredness and getting a second wind- she's overtired. Also, do you bath your two together? Mine get super excited and splashy and silly in the bath together. It's very sweet but it also hypes them up.

GlummyMummy. Night dryness will happen. Honestly, DS1 drinks gallons overnight but one day he decided no more pull ups (I think he was somewhere between 3.5 and 4) and bingo. He's never had an accident and very rarely needs a wee in the night: must have a bladder of steel which he doesn't get from me.

TittyGolightly. While night waking and co-sleeping are both biological normal for humans, they can still be tremendously difficult to actually cope with in practice. Our natural biological rhythms would have us sleep in the day to offset the night wakefulness- I (and a lot of other people) can't do that because I'm at work. And while co-sleeping with my two was lovely when they were babies, as soon as they hit toddlerhood they turned into wriggly eels who squirm around the bed in their sleep, ending up sideways/upside down/kicking you in the head/with their bottom wedged against your nose. Co sleeping works for them (they sleep) but it doesn't work for me or DH. It's not a solution for everyone, no matter how biologically normal it is.

So I can confirm I am still alive. She slept from 8pm - 6.50am. I couldn't quite believe it when I woke up. It could be a fluke and might be that she had 3 days of terrible sleep so was too tired to wake up. Or it could be that 1) i gave her a double banana smoothie before bath 2) piece of toast before bed so she was more full or 3) it was just about time she slept. She didn't even wake up for water or toilet which I'm shocked at.

I've bought some magnesium bath salts to use in her bath along with Sour Cherry Juice concentrate to add to her smoothies. And just got some lavender bubble bath and body lotion...all of which are meant to help a more peaceful sleep.

Am I going a bit overboard? probably...but desperate for bad sleeping days to be behind us.

FurryGiraffe - Yes they do bath together, it just makes life easier not to bath them. The baby probably doesn't need a bath every night but she loves it and I feel bad leaving her out. Older daughter def needs a bath as she goes to pre-school, uses the toilets there and generally gets mucky.

they can still be tremendously difficult to actually cope with in practice. Our natural biological rhythms would have us sleep in the day to offset the night wakefulness- I (and a lot of other people) can't do that because I'm at work.

Yes, a societal need. Babies and children are driven by biology, not society though. They can be conditioned to override the biology to a certain extent, but I don’t think seeing it as a battle to be won helps anyone.

Hurrah! Who cares if it's a fluke- take what you can get, that's my motto! And I'd throw the kitchen sink at it if I were you.

Yes, I bath mine together too, even though they get ridiculously hyper.

Yes, a societal need. Babies and children are driven by biology, not society though. They can be conditioned to override the biology to a certain extent, but I don’t think seeing it as a battle to be won helps anyone.
I certainly don't see it as a battle to be won (more a trial to be endured). I get what you're saying and I know you mean it kindly and I absolutely agree its important to understand that a pre-school child's nightwaking isn't 'abnormal' (ie there's nothing wrong with them/you haven't done anything wrong- it's just how they are). However (and this is going to sound very confrontational and I really don't mean it to be so apologies in advance) I also find appeals to 'biological normality' in this context tremendously infuriating. It feels like you're being told you should accept it and not try to do anything about it and that you're failing if you can't cope with it. I absolutely know that's not what you mean, but that's how it feels when you're in sleep deprivation hell and people tell you its 'normal' for your three year old to wake multiple times a night: you feel like you're a failure as a mother for not being able to just run with it and take it in your stride. When you're told it's 'biologically normal' it feels as though the person tell you that is saying 'you shouldn't try and change this'.

As I said, I absolutely know that's not what you mean, and I do get that it's important to remember this is a normal sleep pattern for a small child and they'll (probably) grow out of it in time.

Quite late to rply you but honestly it was horrible Rply can’t blv you really said that. People do get hungry mam don’t know you even give food to your kids jeeez

This is a really easy fix. You need to set your alarm (put it on vibrate) for a bout 15 mins before she wakes up and disturb her a little but not enough to wake her. Do this three of four times and she will get past that wake up time. It really does work. Its called wake to sleep. She is waking up because her body had got used to waking up at that time.