I'm cracking up, she just won't sleep!

[DollyLlama]

Someone please help! My daughter is 2.9 years and just won’t sleep.

We used to have a lovely routine at around 2 years old of bed at 7pm, lay down with favourite teddy, cover up with blanket and I could say love you good night and leave and that was that. She might wake once or twice for a dummy but she would settle quickly.

Now its bed at 8pm, offer her the choice of walking up or being carried so she has choice (everything being NO is another huge issue we have at the moment but that’s a whole different thread) put in cot, juice cup in reach (we’ve moved from juice to water but that’s not helping either) cover up, and if we try to leave she repeats “cuddle” over and over until either my partner or I sit on the floor next to the cot and fuss her back for 15 mins - 1 hour or we leave and she screams the house down.

Even when she’s finally asleep, she wakes in the middle of the night screaming “mummy cuddle, daddy cuddle” until one of us goes in and the whole routine of fussing her to sleep starts again and can last an hour or more.

We’ve gotten rid of dummies so she only had them at night time (almost like an incentive to stay in bed as she loves her dummy).

She has taken to waking up for the day around 4 or 5am. It’s killing me and my partner as we also have a newborn (who actually sleeps except 1 night feed, he’s so easy) and will just not settle again so one of us has to get up with her otherwise she screams the house down and wakes the baby up.

She no longer naps in the day, only if she has been in the car and is particularly tired. Even then she falls asleep far too late so we have to wake her up. If she does fall asleep earlier (before 3pm) then we leave her to nap for around 1 hour. The problem is, if she gets over tired then she gets night terrors and they can last 2 hours and are utterly horrendous. She’s had these since she was around 18 months though so we’re quite used to those.

Well done for getting this far if you managed it.

Lastly, she’s hyper. I mean she just can’t stop moving, talking, acting up for attention. My partner and I aren’t perfect, we’re so sleep deprived that it’s a struggle to be full of energy and we fell into a bad habit of letting her play with my iPad and watch kids YouTube. That’s stopped. Made no difference either.

I’m losing the will right now. I was up at half 4 reading all the expert sleep techniques and laughing as we’ve tried it all! Laying her back down and saying nothing, gradual retreat, controlled crying etc etc. We even bought a Gro Light that shows a sun when it’s time to get up and explained how it all works. Nothing.

Her vocabulary is really good so she could explain a fair bit if there was a problem but I get nothing from her!

I just don’t know what to do anymore! I’m so tired! I’m not asking the world. Even if she woke up but didn’t need me to settle her back down for an hour or even if she regularly woke at 6.

I don’t read in her room as she won’t settle with books. They’re far too exciting and she would scream at me until she could hold it and then wouldn’t calm down.

Baths before bed are not a regular thing as she’s such a water baby, she refuses to get out every time which ends up in huge tantrums so it’s far from relaxing.

I don’t think she’s ready for a big bed yet. Maybe in the next few months but right now, I think there’s been too much change recently with the baby. We’ve tried to keep everything as similar as we could for her so she didn’t have too much upheaval but these problems were there before the baby.

My partner and I try to be as calm as possible and explain things to her rather than having a “no, because I said so” attitude. I won’t lie, I really feel like screaming at her sometimes out of pure frustration but that’s not going to help either.

Any advice would be HUGELY appreciated.

I would scrap the cot and do a Montessori floor bed. You have to babyproof the room obviously - I don’t think it would eradicate her need for cuddles but you can cuddle lying down and it would probably all be a lot quicker. If she wakes in the night can you bring her in with you until she grows out of it?

@crazycatlady5 thank you for the reply. I know that was a seriously long post.

I just had a look into that bed. I think my daughter is just too hyperactive to stay put. She can’t keep still in her cot, let alone if she had free rein. I’d be worried she would hurt herself if I was asleep even with a child proofed bedroom.

I’m also worried about starting bad habits with bringing her in with us. We did this 2 days ago out of desperation and she still wouldn’t sleep.

We spent such a long time trying to establish a solid bedtime routine and it just flew out of the window and I don’t know how to claw it back

My daughter was exactly the same. She grew out of it at around 4.
In the meantime I gave up, and coslept. We both got sleep, and I was much happier for it. Believe me I know the desperation!

She is still chatty, active, very bright and sporty. Its just how she is.

You have a newborn you say. My DSs sleep went haywire when his sister came along (he was exactly 2). I think it’s more likely that she’s looking for your attention as the new baby has arrived than a sleep problem per se. DS took about 4 months to settle down properly but it was a lot better after 2. Hope things improve soon.

@Leatherbatwings did you have trouble getting your DD back into her own bed? Also, how long did you do sleep?

@Gannetseatfish oh I won’t lie, it’s been worse since the baby came along, he’s 8 weeks now and she’s much better than she was. The first 2 weeks were hell! We try so hard to give her as much one on one time as we can but it’s never enough.

Here’s hoping a couple more months and things will settle down again 🤞 thank you.

My 3year old needs us to sit on her bed until she falls asleep and then regularly runs into our room and sleeps in our bed. We also have a new baby (12 weeks) and sometimes it ends up being all four of us in th bed.

It all started when she had a nightmare and I went into her room as she was screaming and she jumped into my arms.

Since then she keeps waking up and running into our room. Thankfully she hasn't woken the baby but it wakes me up and my sleep is precious!

We've started a reward chart to combat this issue and other things, and it's a bit like a rewards 'card' you get in a coffee shop or something! Three nights in your bed and you get a chocolate bar, 6 nights and you get a surprise present (things we've kept aside from Christmas as she had a billion things from MIL)

It's working well with the other behaviour issues but not yet with bedtime. I think she genuinely gets spooked. She won't stay in her room alone anymore. We used to kiss her goodnight and she'd go to sleep by herself but she freaks out if we try that now.

We're moving house next year so will start afresh. I'm not sure I would recommend co-sleeping with a toddler though if you have t before as it's a hard cycle to break. I wish we hadn't started!

She decided to sleep in her own bed one day, as soon as she started school.

I got a full nights sleep by letting her in my bed. Good luck!

Currently been up 1 hour and 20 minutes. Tried gently fussing her for 30 minutes but nothing, not good enough. She just keeps saying she doesn’t want to sleep then cuddle mummy over and over again. I left the room and she has been hysterically crying ever since and I’ve been checking on her every 5 minutes or so repeating by night time is for sleeping, cover her back up, giving her teddy back her, stroking her back and leaving.

She’s utterly hysterical but I can’t do it anymore, I’ve been really unwell recently and I’m SO exhausted. I have to try controlled crying or I’m going to lose my mind.

She is struggling in the day just as much as we are, I don’t know how else to help but to be cruel to be kind.

Ok so I’m going to go against all the other PPs! Kids that are overtired are known to be hyper, therefore fix one problem you’ll sort both.

If I was you personally I’d stop all the fussing and giving into tantrums.

Bedtime routine of supper (banana&warm milk) both known to aid sleep. Bath time, use a timer on your phone explain when it goes of then it’s time to get out. Do not give in, even once. Story, explain that if she is silly or doesn’t listen (ie tries to take the book or tantrum about anything) then you will stop. And do, no 2nd chances. Then lie her down, kiss, single cuddle and Ninight it’s sleep time now. That’s it no fussing or going back in.
If she then tantrums etc go in after 5mins, lie down tuck her in, kiss, ninight sleep time. No other interaction. The next time after 6mins, then 7 etc.

This is just what I’d do and have done. You’ll have hell to start with but it’s so worth it. Just make sure you don’t give in at all. I know it can seem quite hard but I know for myself I don’t cope well with being tired and that would affect my ability as a parent and cause a downward spiral.
Good luck, sleep tight

Thanks @Lollipop30

I’ve been doing the 4 minute, 5
Minute etc routine tonight. Shes still going strong. I’m exhausted!

I’m going to try the warm milk and banana tomorrow, thank you. Anything is worth a shot at this stage.

I was keen not to get into a set bath, book, bed routine as my baby doesn’t always play ball and I don’t want to mess my toddler up (aside from the previously mentioned issues) but I’m going to have to try.

I just don’t know how she can be bouncing off the walls drinking water all day, no screens, filling meals, no chocolate!

It’s almost 5am, I went to bed at nearly midnight because of the baby I’ve been doing this since just before 3am.

She’s utterly breaking my heart, I feel like a monster hearing her cry 😢

We’ve finally given up and gotten up. She’s not even tired, this isn’t normal

I feel fucking dreadful and can’t catch up because of the baby.

I burst into tears and my DD Just kept saying “oh, mummy’s sad”. She’s aware but just won’t cave! I know she’s two but it feels personal as it’s always me. Her dad is good but he sees to the baby while I deal with her.

The hyperactivity and the waking so early suggests she is overtired. When kids get overtired they produce adrenaline so it's a vicious cycle. My son is a similar age and is in bed with lights out at 7pm. He sometimes has an afternoon nap too. At 2.9 she should understand if you sit her down and explain you are not doing cuddle etc anymore once you've said goodnight. I'd then do gradual retreat eg beside the cot/bed for a few nights, then doorway, then just outside but no cuddling or interaction

Read this if you get a chance

theearlyhour.com/2017/12/13/early-rising-baby-to-sleep-later-every-morning/

Oh dolly I absolutely understand how you're feeling right now my ds is nearly 6yo and he was an awful sleeper.

Like you we used to fuss over him, stroke his back, hold his hand, sit next to his bed....this would go on for HOURS. He would then wake pretty much hourly before deciding 4am was a good time to get up for the day. My lowest points were probably sat sobbing with my head in my hands telling him he was making me ill (I have genuinely never felt as unwell as I did at that point, both physically and mentally), failing an important exam as I could barely remember my own name and phoning my mother at 5am begging her to have him for the weekend (That was HUGE for me, my relationship with my mother is not great to say the least and I never ask her for anything. She said no)

Like your dd, ds was bouncy. It was ridiculous, never sat still, bounced as he stood talking to me, never napped unless in the car....i didn't understand It, at all. I was hanging out of my arse and he was seemingly ok. The best piece of advice I was given was to sort out the going to bed then get him in bed earlier than I would ever normally put him to bed. I was advised to stop the fussing, no talking, no eye contact just keep walking ds back to bed then walk out. The sound of him crying was horrendous so I put my iPod on and listened to music to drown it out. First night took over 3 hours to get him to sleep, 2nd night was an hour, 3rd night 15 minutes and the 4th night I sat on the stairs for an hour expecting him to come out but he didn't. He still woke up a million times that night but I felt kind of ok as I had had a small victory next night I put him to bed at 6pm, he woke 3 times (which is a vast improvement) but the next day he was much calmer. I won't lie and say that was everything sorted because we still have shit nights (I've been awake since 5.15 because he's been twatting about) but it's much better.

Sorry that's long, sometimes I find it cathartic to write it down as I can see how far we've come and I hope it helps others to see they're not alone!

P.s ds has never been in my bed, that's the only place in the house that is mine!

Poor you @DollyLlama. That sounds like a terrible night. Can you get a rest today? I really don’t think you should do cc or anything else so drastic at this point. Your DD has had such a major upset in her life I think you have to give her more of a chance to get over it. It’s def a vicious cycle of “over tiredness” that’s keeping her up. I hate that term but I suppose it describes the adrenaline, you’ll know that feeling yourself when you’ve had no sleep and then can’t sleep (I certainly do). As others said I would concentrate on eating well (this was also affected with our DS) and having the opportunity to rest/nap if possible during the day. So when baby sleeps (?!) sit/lie down with her and read or something, warm dark room (all that stuff) to help her to relax. I really hope it gets better soon for you I know how hard it is!

Thank you everyone for your advice and experiences. I’ve been pouring over it and reading all the articles and getting my head around my next step.

I’m going to instil a solid bedtime routine tonight, I’m going to get a reward chart, warm milk, bath, book, cuddles and hope for the best.

My partner sent me back to bed at 7am for a couple of hours so I feel a lot more human thank god!

I also have a visit in the calendar from the health visitor next Tuesday for my newborn. He’s perfectly fine and I have zero concerns so I’m going to use the time to discuss my daughters needs with her and see what advice she can offer me as well.

If I don’t get very far in the next couple of weeks, I’ll also take her to the GP to rule out anything medical that could be bothering her as well so I know she’s ok.

Glad to hear you got some sleep. I totally use the HV for advice about toddler, they are way more trouble than little babies! Good luck x

Very overtired DD decided no nap at all today aside from a 5 min doze in the car around 4pm (she went to nanny’s for a few hours) and down at 7.35pm. Later than I wanted but the night hasn’t gone to plan.

No bath but we made pizza for dinner to get her engaged with her food then warm milk and a banana granola bar to stop her saying she’s hungry as real bananas have become yucky since yesterday

Really fought it and cried hysterically that she doesn’t want to sleep but fell asleep very quickly.

I did sit next to her and fuss her a bit but less than I normally do.

Wish me luck tonight! I’ve jinxed it now

Ok so one small wake up and fussed her back to sleep quickly....

She decided to climb out of her cot for the first time ever this morning.

Wonderful! New bed it is

Hi OP, I'm sorry you're having such an awful time of it.
JUst wanted to say please don't stress about putting DD in a big girl bed. I know you say she's hyperactive and won't stay put but honestly, she may surprise you. My DD is the same age (3 in April) and has always been a decent sleeper to be honest, but putting her in a big bed last year went fantastically well. She now really loves bedtime and she really appreciates getting into bed. She also doesn't nap so is often exhausted by the evening - she's a very active little girl. She just really likes going to bed. We have a bath, story, bed routine and then we just say goodnight and leave her to fall asleep. Because the room is dark (minus a small nightlight) she's never been inclined to get out of bed.

Your DD may surprise you with a big bed and she may like the fact that she has a big bed, and take enjoyment from bedtime. It may not happen right away but don't lose heart if the first nights are rocky. Stay consistent in your approach to communicating to her that it's bedtime and don't fret about her getting out of bed. Can you put a stair gate across her bedroom door?

I can sense your anxiety around it but I just wanted to encourage you, that it won't be all bad. You've just had a baby, you're knackered and things are going to seem more huge than they are. Keep your DH by your side and approach it all the same way so your DD gets the same messages from both of you. We had a bad week with our DD after putting her in the bed but i think it also clashed with the 2 year sleep regression as it wasn't long after her 2nd birthday. But it stopped just as abruptly as it started literally after one week.

I hope it goes smoothly for you :)

@PJsAndProsecco thank you. I think I needed to hear that today.

I can’t risk her throwing herself out of the cot so we’re going to take her shopping for a ‘big girl bed’ when we get paid. Hopefully that will be the incentive she needs to encourage good sleep 🤞

My son climbed out once and gave himself a fright (plus I was cross!) and he didn't try it again. Maybe she won't. Also it's harder for them to climb out if in a sleeping bag still. Harder to raise the leg up!

Oops that came out upside down, will try again

Last two pages