Sleep training twin - same room?

[BellePack]

I’m after some advice please. If you have done controlled crying with twins did you keep them in the same room as each other? I’ve read advice about keeping them together and splitting them up. DD is the worse sleeper, wakes up multiple times and is a shrieker. DS2 can generally be settled back to sleep, if he wakes up, with a dummy. They both sleep in my room but will shortly be going into their own room as almost 6 months.

They both really fight going down at bedtime but are a dream for daytime naps ...

I’m also nervous about them waking DS1 when we start controlled crying

Thanks
BP

Controlled crying isn’t appropriate for their age. I assumed they were well over one when I first started reading your post. It’s tiring but I think you need to ride it out.

I don’t think 6 months is too young. I did it for DS1 at that age and he slept through on the second night. Prior to that he was getting v little sleep at night so I believe it was good for him. When it gets to 4am and I’ve only had an hours sleep on a regular basis something needs to be done. I can’t cope. Co sleeping doesn’t work. Wish it did. I’m not interested in alternative options, thanks, only experiences on sleep training twins.

@crazycatlady5 I don’t believe you should say what is appropriate that to @bellepack unless you have twins? From what I’ve read you can barely cope with one baby, she’s got 2, try and imagine that.

@bellepack my twins sleep much better in their own rooms and we separated them at 5 months due to waking one another up. Previous to this they were sleeping in the same cot in my room. The better sleeping one immediately started sleeping through upon separation.

With our twins, ds rarely woke but if he did has always been brilliant at going back to sleep himself. Dd on the otherhand is a screamer!

We've never seperated them, did go in to settle/reassure her but not once removed her from the room. Only a couple of times her antics have woken her db or our older dd's.

I don't have twins so perhaps not the best person to pass comment, but I struggled with my second so wanted to add a friendly comment.

Have you thought about the gradual/gentle retreat? I suspect it would work quite well with twins in the same room because the concept is that you just sit in the room and move further back over time. It involves less crying, which is better for their age.

Ultimately as well as doing what is best for them, you have to do what's best for you, because if you're not happy, then no one's happy!

Medically advice is controlled crying is not suitable for under ones as they still need food durring the night.

Lots of people think it is not suitable for any child.

@chaosofcalm I’m not the biggest fan of controlled crying and probably if I only had one baby I wouldn’t have done it but used for one of mine at 7 months. The health visitors actively recommends for babies over 6 months therefore I think it’s probably ok. Anyway the op wasn’t looking to get into a controlled crying debate she was looking for advice about same or different rooms, so if you don’t have advice on that I’m not sure why you feel the need to comment?

@Waterdropsdown where have I said I can barely cope with my baby? I think parents to twins are heroes and I think it must be beyond hard.

Still, I don’t think CC is appropriate at any age, and definitely not under a year regardless. I shared my opinion in the hope the OP would try a gentler method - regardless of whether she asked for one.

Which is nice because people can’t ask a genuine question for help without getting an arsey reply that’s not relevant. Makes folk not feel confident asking which isn’t very nice.

Next time you have twins let’s see if you manage to get them both sleeping without doing any kind of controlled crying or having a nervous breakdown.

My initial post wasn’t arsey at all. I was just saying sleep training isn’t recommended even by the NHS now until over 12 months. It’s possible the OP didn’t know. I’ve not said it’s easy especially having twins, but there are definitely ways other than controlled crying.

We have twins (now 4) and decided not to do controlled crying (whatever that means, because people mean different things when they say it) because of the risk of one waking the other up in the same room and also because they were early and small when they were born and needed all the food they could get (consultant advice).

We did, however, have a set routine (where both were fed, changed and out down at the same time every day, day or night) and did gradual retreat to help them to sleep (put down then hands on patting, sitting in room, leaving for 5 mins, leaving for longer) as suggested by a PP. We let them fuss a bit but never let them get to full crying or hysterical. This took longer to establish but resulted in less disruption/crying/waking each other up overall.

A word of warning tho - we got them into a routine at about 6 months only to have it put out of whack by developmental growth spurts and teething at about 9 months... from that point to 2.5 years old one of them slept through, but the other didn't, in turns! It was good while it lasted!

Good luck OP :)

2 links, to clarify the terms I used.

One on CC (which NHS says use from 8 months):
www.dchs.nhs.uk/home/our-services/find_services_by_topic/healthvisiting/advice_guidance/hvs_sleeping

And one on gradual retreat (which NHS says use from 12 months):

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/Pages/sleep-problems-in-children.aspx#gotosleep

My girls went into their own room around 7m, we used a form of gradual retreat at that age. One of mine is a much better sleeper than the other and I was always paranoid about them waking each other so if one woke in the night I'd often scoop them out and co-sleep. Now at almost 2, on the odd occasion they wake, I'm much firmer and make them stay in the cot. I've learnt it's surprising how much noise the other one will sleep through though so don't be too worried about them waking each other.

That’s interesting about the NHS and 8 month old. Thanks for posting the links OMGtwins. My health visitor definitely told me to use this and so did my certified sleep consultant. I’ve actually known many people to have been told 6 months by the NHS.

Waterdropsdown because MN is a conversation which is not directed by just one person. I would not say anything here that I would not be happy saying to a friend. At six months it is normal for babies to need not want milk durring the night and/or comfort. Not responding to the needs of your baby is considered to be abusive. There is far more too much pressure on Mum’s in your society to feel they need to make their babies sleep through rather than accepting than recognition that is just how babies sleep. I wanted the OP to know that she does not have to sleep train as there is a lot of peer assessed research which suggests it can have a negative impact on a person.

*our not your

Many babies sleep through before 6 months and so don’t need food during the night. Seems like DS2 is turning one of those.

DD1 isn’t waking for food most of the time. I could still feed her and do CC...

But I’m being a rubbish mum to all 3 children on this little sleep.

Gradual retreat is a form of CC...

As I said already, I would just like advice on what people have done with their twins. Thanks v much to those who have responded on that point.

@chaosofcalm please can you send me this medical advice? As I said before my health visitor said this was ok and if the nhs guidelines are not to do this I want to inform my health visitor she is giving the wrong advice.

Those links are somewhat cause for confusion over the facts.

Just over the county boarder to you OMGtwins, in Nottinghamshire, our Health Visitors follow NHS England in that they will not recommend any sleep training under 12 months old. Our local Sure start centre (run by the HV) has a weekly "Sleep Clinic" for 1-5 year olds. They specifically say they will offer advice on good sleep habits for under 12 month olds, but will not suggest any sleep training methods.

Did you read that article you linked you from Derbyshire HV OMGtwins? The method they describe for under 8 month olds is Gradual Withdrawal.

It would be unusual for a gentler method to be recommended after a harsher method, which us why I wanted to clarify the 8m/12m you mention.

BellePack

I'd do different rooms until sleep trained. I'd keep one in with me and the other in the twins room. Once both are sleeping better, then move into same room.

My twins were in the same room as each other but different to DH & I from about 8 weeks. We did CC and kept them together. To be honest, it was fairly easy and they settled pretty quickly (within a week certainly) once we started doing it. I always put their willingness to sleep down to the fact that they were together. Once they were sleeping through, if one woke crying the other tended to sleep through it. We may have just been lucky but I think keeping them together was a big part of it. We were big on routine when they were tiny though - if one woke in the night to be fed, I’d wake the other and feed her too.

FATE yeah I did read those articles and was confused about the time limits too but tbh I'm anti CC for babies (ie kids under 12 months) anyway because I believe it's developmentally inappropriate (or wrong time for their developmental needs/stage). I wanted to put those articles up to clarify what I meant when I used certain terms in a PP.

Gradual retreat in the way we used it wasn't a form of CC, we didn't let our kids cry hard (little whines for a few minutes yes, but full blown crying no) and we didn't do exactly what is said in the article, we did some stuff before the leaving the room too.

We stayed in the room until they fell asleep, with decreasing degrees of closeness to them from patting on the back to just being in there, then moved on to leaving for a short while (approximately as described in the article) but always went back in if they got too upset and sat with them whilst they were in bed until they calmed down or fell asleep.

One of the reasons it's hard to talk about things like this is because of the difference in the way people use the same terms. I think this is happening with the three of us, me FATE and the OP.

I wish you best of luck OP, twin induced sleep deprivation is so hard, and it's horses for courses and whatever works best for you.

Oh crap, those articles are really confusing.... Ignore me, in ironic fashion, I'm a bit sleep deprived!!