Please help me sort out dd's terrible sleep pattern

[tigerbalm]

My dd is 18 months old. She has always found it difficult to get to sleep and settle herself back off, and I have posted on here on and off over the last 14 months under a different name.

Am really desperate for some respite at the moment as 6weeks pg, and really sicky and shattered.

She wakes up at 5.15am and is awake for the day. Often still grisly because still tired and then needs a morning nap by 10am latest.

About 50percent of the time she has another sleep in the afternoon.

At bed-time around 7pm she is either hyper or over-tired and resists all aspects - undressing, getting pjs on, going into cot. Last few weeks it has been taking until 8.30 / 8.45pm till she goes off to sleep.

Thats a bed-time routine which lasts over 2 hours from bathtime at 6.30pm, and we have to stay with her in the room as she tries to go to sleep she screams if we leave.

Any suggestons for how to get her to sleep later in the morning. She is frequently tired and shouty and fussy and I am not coping very well .

You poor thing, sounds exhausting. Unfortunately I don't have any answers because I spend my time lurking on here looking for my own miracle solution which has yet to present itself.

Have to tried co-sleeping or is that not a possibilitiy. Perhaps if she was to snuggle up at 5.15 you might get another hour?

Good luck, I hope someone can come along and offer you some constructive advice.

Hi Tigerbalm

Congratulations on your bump!

Okay, so have you tried the obvious - blackout blinds, white noise Cds, toys in the cot for her to play with if she wakes early, delaying her first feed by five minutes a day so she gives up waking up early for breakfast?

If you have an no joy, can you try putting her down a bit later? I know it's horrid but my DD will not go to sleep before 8pm and so I start her wind down routine at 7 - I used to start it at six and then fight her for an hour to get her down. Then I realised she just wasn't sleepy that early and I'd rather lose the hour in the evening to myself if it means I know she will reliably pass out and stay asleep.

Also she's old enough now to use a sleep chart - where you (together) make a chart to show all the steps in getting ready for bed and let her point to the next step and do it (so she's planning to go to bed herself) and use stickers to reward her if she follows the chart properly and gets ready for bed well.

Good luck - there are no simple solutions but I wish you well with it!

thanks for the support gingerninja

chocolate, thanks for all your suggestions. the blackouts we did think of but we are moving in a fortnight so will need to buy to fit new bedroom window. Also the early waking has been going on since December so not sure connected to light - but fairly convinced the night-time is.

With the feeding, we have only just weaned her off 1-2 night feeds and so when she wakes at 5.15am she is absolutely ravenous for her milk and I feel I cant deprive her - the 5 minutes would just be crying. Toys in the cot are terrible for night-time as she plays rather than going to sleep - I suppose we could sneak some in while she is asleep to see if she would play in the morning? Yes that could be worth a try.

The routine chart thing is a good idea and I am really glad you reminded me, as I think I read it once before in the No Cry Sleep Solution book but had totally forgotton in my hormonal confusion. I could take photos of her to stick on next to diagrams of bath and pyjamas etc. Might at least take some of the fight out of it, although I think it would enthrall her and make her want to talk about the chart alot at first.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

bumping

try doing bath and pjs at a different time - I know everyone says routine is important but I found that avoiding screaming fits at bedtime was more important
If I know DS is tired I do bath and pjs at 5.30 then he can come downstairs again for a while. If really tired I don't bother with the bath - just top and tail - and if he's been really awkward I let him sleep in his day clothes - it doesn't really matter as no one knows except us!
good luck

See if you can get hold of Richard Ferber's 'Solving your child's sleep problems'. There are endless tips in there for problems like these.

I haven't tried this for myself and it is not for the faint-hearted but on paper it seems to make a lot of sense:

If she always wakes up at 5.15am, set your alarm for 5.10am and get up and go into her. Be all smiley and ready for the day. Say "Its morning time now, time to get up!" and grit your teeth and do it. Do this for a little while - ie. always be there before she wakes up. Try and get her to associate you coming into the room and being chatty and awake with this is the start of the day time.

After a while, a week or so if you've always managed to catch her out before she's awake, push the morning wake up back by 5 mins and her morning nap back by 5 mins. Always say out loud and directly to her "its morning time now, time to get up".

Keep doing this until you get to 6am and a midday nap, or whatever you feel is reasonable.

I know it sounds horrendous, but if I were you I'd give it a try. Get yourself off to bed by 9.30pm for a while, you're probably ready for it in early preg.

Other than this, I know of no other cure for early wakings but I do know if you don't manage to sort it out, the habit goes on and on and on. I have a friend whose 6 year old still gets up at 6am. Sorry if
thats tmi.

I've just re-read your post and noticed that your DD has a "morning nap" and about 50% of the time another sleep in the afternoon.

IMO, at 18 months, 1 long sleep of 2 hours at around midday is ideal. Are you waking her up from her morning nap? Is it less than 2 hours? How about letting her have a morning nap of 30 mins then trying to get her to sleep again for another 30 mins to and hour at, say, 1pm or 2pm. Then gradually try and merge those two naps together into a longer one.

FWIW my 2 children slept 8pm - 7am with a 2 hour nap 1pm - 3pm at 18 months (approx! it wasn't done by the book).

Really feeling for you and do hope it all gets better for you both soon.

Just wondering...you say that you don't want to buy blackout blinds as you're moving, how about blacking out the window with some large bits of cardboard, blankets etc. We do that when we go to my IL's as their curtains are white and no use whatsoever! If we don't do it DS wakes early. With the slightly odd looking blackout he sleeps til 7.45.

thank you for the replies everyone

lizbet you definitely have a point about just going with the flow to avoid conflict. For night-times I have considered just letting her play (after bath and pjs on) while I get on with something nearby until she becomes obviously tired.

But I know that when she does have a late night (eg special occasions) she still wakes up early, and so would she be getting enough sleep?

Daphne yes your plan does sound horrendous, although I thank you for the suggestion as maybe I need something radical. And I cant get my head round it. Whenever we deliberately wake dd she is grisly and moody for ages because she hasnt finished her natural sleep cycle. How does it work? Whats to say, she wouldnt just get into the habit of waking 5 mins earlier rather than later?

With the day-time naps there is no routine, she refused to settle into one as a baby and now she is cared for by others 3 days a week while I work part-time so there is no way I can impose a 'system'. I envy you having children who napped in the middle of the day for 2 hours - the things I could get done in 2 hours! If only - dd has always been a terrible sleeper. As a baby she wouldnt nap for more than 30 mins, and could only go to sleep in fed or rocked.

chocolateshoes, actually last night we hung a dark blue towel at the window and that was better. but it didnt cover the whole window! will see if we have any big cardboard in the garage.

tigerbalm, have you tried silver foil? That works too as black out in the interim before you move. You can just cellotape it to the frames.

good idea clairemow - it may well help with bed-times

tho not sure about the early mornings as she has always woken around 5am, its just that when she was younger she would go back off to sleep and now she doesnt