Ed Psych just told me that 13 hours sleep is "totally excessive" for 4 year old!

[bobsmum]

Ds (4.5) is in 3rd stage intervention atm. We've just had another meeting with his ed pysch about his transition into primary school.

We were talking about the start of the school day and I half joked that he would find that hard simply because he normally sleeps in until 8:30am.

She nearly fell off her chair and looked so aghast I thought I'd confessed to stabbing him in the eyes with scissors!

"That's totally excessive for his age and will need to be addressed". I figured that meant with an alarm clock - but she's now taken it to mean he has "sleep issues" along with everything else.

Surely sleeping 7-8:30am isn't "abnormal" for a four year old?

She suggested "less than 11 hours" a day.

What do you think?

I think this is the least of ds' problems (if it is indeed a problem) but the ed psych seemed to mark it down as yet another big problem .

Why are you seeing EP?

I would say it is only slightly more than average. My niece/nephew of that age sleep just under 12 hours.

Ds when he started reception at 4.5 was so shattered he used to fall asleep at 5pm and sleep through till 7am. I think his record was 4.30pm to 7.30am. He still needs quite a lot of sleep even now (nearly 8) -- at least 11 hours and often 12.

Frascati - he has a bit of trouble with transitions and general fidgeting. There is talk of referral to OT but my mum (a head OT in a specialist school for Autism) thinks that's unnecesary atm. So just the ed psych for now.

I would love a son who slept until that time. DS - just 4 - sleeps from 7pm to 5.30-6 am. Yep, we've tried pushing his bedtime back, no, it makes no difference! So between 10 and 11 hours seems to be right for him. Can't see that another couple makes a big difference, tbh.

Our Ed psych has written into dd's IEP that she NEEDS extra sleep (mor than most kids her age) 13 hrs at night and often a daytime nap more than 3 x a week and that special consideration and allowances be made for her to rest at school when she starts sept 07
This includes allowing her to rest in book corner on a cushion with her cuddle blanket and sucking her thumb

dd sleeps 7pm til 8.30am
she also often sleeps 2-4pm
she is also 4 1/2
Far as I'm concerned dd's need for rest comes first.

THere is no consideration in ds' IEP for this at all and I actually think it's crucial.

The primary headteacher was great today and was keen that unlike every other child in the school that he shouldn't get the school bus because he would be in the school for 8am for a 9am school start. I don't think he could manage missing out on sleep just to kick around school for an hour.

How did this get included in the IEP Piffle - sounds very accommodating and generous? Ds hasn't got a dx (but I'm guessing the powers that be are feeling around aspergers atm).

My youngest is 4 yo and I have to say he has about 11 hours sleep at night, and only very very rarely falls asleep during the day - after a day out, during the journey home maybe.

But all children are different aren't they? The average for an adult is supposed to be 8 hours but I could sleep for 9 or even 10 regularly!

I can't help feeling this is statistical averages again

and hence total rot

after all not all human beings are the same in their need for sleep .. why should children be?

anecdotally I know some children who are just tired .. one boy in DS class (year 1) has a sleep after school and goes to bed at 7

Well, bobsmum, I would say that it matters not a jot what time ds3 goes to bed. He still wakes up by 7, if not before.

But if and I stress if you want to curtail your son's amount of sleep, you might have to look at waking him up earlier as surely he won't get to school on time if he is waking at 8:30, will you?

Are you sure the ed psy isn't thinking more on the lines of adhd? There is a form of adhd which causes the child to be excessively docile and tired (it has different letters), also adhd people are more likely to be dyslexic. I don't know your situation and you know your child best but just offering the info to maybe see where she is coming from. Shame she hasn't talked more to you about it, can you call her and talk through her thoughts?

I think oh fgs, they get knackered at that age and I think you're right.

ds2 (5 in reception) sleeps 12 hours ever day. So 13 not much more and I've never thought it excessive

At ds1's special school the children can sleep if they need to- especially in the nursery/reception/year 1 class. They have a cushion area at the back of the classroom. I don't know how many children use it, but if it was needed it would be used.

Marypop - I suppose ADHD is probably a possiblity as well tbh - they have been digging up a lot of anecdotal evidence and trying to fit with a tick list IYSWIM.

It only came up in passing at this meeting today about the progress made on his IEP. It had never been mentioned before. I was just taken aback by the ed pysch's reaction more than anything and just wondered if ds was even more abnormal than we had already been led to understand.

DG - for ds to get to school on time he would need to meet the school bus at the bottom of our lane at 7:45am. So I guess he would need to be up at about 7am-ish knowing how slow he is!

This gets him to the breakfast club at 8am ish and school starts at 9am. The alternative is that I take him to school myself and he arrives at 8:50am in time for start of school.

As we live in a rural area, all children take the school bus morning and afternoon regardless of whether they have transport or not. If I take thim then he'll miss the breakfast club which everyone else goes to, but tbh, that might be better for him with his transitions anyway.

He has an alarm clock but he switches it to snooze and goes back to sleep. I'll have to resort to throwing buckets of water over him I think.

abnormal should be in quotes btw. I think ds is great

I would have thought that 12 was pretty average so 13 just seems slightly more than average

My kids at that age were sleeping 12- 12.5 hours a night

I think they put it in as I made noises that if dd was not given adequate resting provision, then I'd simply keep her out
but the school she is going to is very play focussed in reception and as some kids are soooo young, they encourage resting and even put cbeebies on if they feel the whole calss needs half an hour off.
only 11 kids in dd's reception class though...

Piffle - Ds will be in a composite class with P1,2 and 3 in the same classroom which should be very interesting - not much room for play I guess.

There are 6 P1s altogether - must quiz them all about their sleeping habits! But they'll all be on the bus afaik.

I never thought I'd be wishing for an early riser, but it looks like it would make life a whole lot easier!

I'd go back to the ed pys and ask more questions about her thinking if I were you. No point in worrying if there's nothing to worry about is there?

Well, a consultant we saw recently about my 5 year old's respiratory issues which resulted in complete exhaustion all the time told me that he wasn't getting enough sleep (he does about 11 hours a night) and that ALL children up to aged 8 should nap during the day!

I thought he was insane actually, but it just goes to show how different experts can totally disagree.