Sleep training

[LeafyLainey]

Currently we are trying to sleep train our 20wo DD.
Her bedtime routine starts at 6 with a bath then her bottle then we put her down drowsy but awake and leave her in her cot with lullabies playing.
We leave her for 5 minutes then go back in give her her dummy resettle her then leave her again. If she’s not crying we leave her for 10 mins then go back and do the same. This is working as it is only taking around 20-30 mins for her to settle herself to sleep. She will then sleep until around 10/11 o’clock where she will wake up. I give her her dummy and sometimes she will drift back off but more often then not we are awake for another half and hour/ hour before she finally does, this time involves a lot of sssshhhing, giving of the dummy etc she is very rarely crying during this time.
She will then wake again around half 1 and again not really go back to sleep until her feed at 3 am she will then sleep until around half 6/7..
she doesn’t seem to be settling herself again during the night and I am ending up with very little sleep each night.
We have been through the 4 month regression and her sleep got better for a time but it seems since we have started training her during the night has gotten worse.
Does anyone have any advice or experience with sleep training please?
Thanks in advance.

I found at some point you have to just leave them without regiving the dummy as they get in the habit of waiting for it. Didn't take long and mine then soothed themselves to sleep.
I also found lullaby things and shushing just perpetuated things.
The rest we did the same; gradually leaving longer between settling.

I found at some point you have to just leave them without regiving the dummy as they get in the habit of waiting for it. Didn't take long and mine then soothed themselves to sleep.
I also found lullaby things and shushing just perpetuated things.
The rest we did the same; gradually leaving longer between settling.

Why don't you feed at the 10/11am wake up?

Feed her at 10/11. She sounds hungry.

At 20 weeks old she will still need night feeds, her stomach is tiny. 7/7.30 till 3 is a VERY long time to go without milk. If she slept through that time fair enough but she is waking and likely because she’s hungry!

The reason I hadn’t been feeding at the 10/11 wake up is because that’s a new thing she has started since we started sleep training her, and previously if she did wake earlier than 1-2am she would go straight back to sleep once her dummy was given to her and sleep until around 3am when I would then feed her.
Last night she was awake pretty much all night, we fed at 1am but she was waking every hour or so. She starts to drop off but then wakes up and the cycle starts again.

Nothing is necessarily consistent with baby sleep. I really like the attached graph as instead of just consistently getting better it shows a more realistic sleep pattern for most babies. There are loads of growth spurts in the first year. I don’t know if you’re breastfeeding or bottlefeeding but my little one woke almost very hour for milk during a growth spurt! I think you’ll find if you feed her she’ll go back to sleep quicker and it won’t last, we have periods of 2 night wakings for milk and sometimes about 8 (those nights I don’t count!)

X

Sleep development is not linear. It is not the case that as baby get a older, sleep gets better.

Her calorific need will be ever increasing. Yet the physical size of her stomach does not increase at the same rate. This means she can't take more milk in one go, but needs extra calories.

The way to get those calories into baby are:

• ensure baby is full at every feed. Wind well, reoffer milk, avoid distractions
• this done, the next way to get baby having more calories is more bottles in the daytime. Say five 3 hourly feeds between 7am-7pm. Or seven 2 hourly feed. Or whatever.

If you don't increase daytime calories, baby will seek to take those extra calories at night. So reintroduction of night feeds along side growth spurts.night feeds that were not needed previously.

Your baby will be hungry at 10/11pm.

At the moment she is having 5 bottle feeds a day with 180ml each feed every 3-4 hours and she empties each bottle.
We tried her on solids a few weeks ago but she wasn’t interested in them and hasn’t been since.
She is in the 75th percentile and has gained weight very well since birth.

I have 20w ds2....I agree she sounds hungry. Could you push bottles, or at least the bedtime bottle, up to 210ml?

Ds2 has a bottle at 7pm which he falls asleep on, so we don’t have much chance to try self settling. He’s then down with perhaps one re-settle until about 2am when he has a bottle. He’s then very unsettled 4- 6am. I think from wind, but he won’t burp at night. Could wind be bothering your dd?

Your 20week old does not need weaning solids, she needs more milk.

Not bottle fed baby should ever be draining a bottle. Any time that happens, make a bigger bottle next time. You should always be making at about 30-60ml more than baby will drink. This allows for baby to have extra milk per feed as needed.

Your baby is hungry. The night wakes are because your baby needs more milk.

You will never get a hungry baby to sleep well.

That’s great! Although definitely doesn’t mean she’s now hungrier now :) no need to try solids early, milk is more calorific. I’d say draining the bottles totally is a sign that she could be having more.

not hungrier now

Ok thank you all for your help, will increase her feeds and see how we get on

Good luck!

So I have increased DD’s feeds, in today’s 24 hour period she has gone from 5 feeds to 7 and her bottles have increased from 180ml to 240ml she is not taking the whole bottle each time anymore but has consumed more milk today than normal. Her last feed was at 9:45 as I was going to dream feed at 10 but she woke up at 9. It is now half 11 and she’s awake again. This can’t just be down to hunger.
Any tips on how to keep her sleep for longer? I’m starting to run on empty now.

6pm bottle, 7/7.30pm sleep, 10.30pm bottle (dream feed), sleeps until 7am ish x

They don’t sleep that deeply when they’re little though and are meant to stir more often x

She has a bottle at around 6:15 and with this sleep training is usually asleep by 7. I then gave her a bottle at 9:45 as she woke up and wouldn’t go back to sleep. She then fell asleep at 10 and is now awake again.

Feel for you OP.
I never sleep trained-we co sleep and that works for us.
Pros and cons but on balance , I get more sleep than I would do.
Good luck and hope you get some rest soon

2am and we are awake again! I’m feeding her again hoping she will sleep until 7 but I know she will be up again in a couple of hours if not sooner. I just don’t get it. She used to sleep much better than this . I’m starting to dread bedtime.

Really sorry OP. For what it’s worth, I don’t think it sounds like hunger at this stage either. Hope you get it sorted soon.

You won't see an immediate difference with changes to do with feeding and sleeping. You need to give it a week of consistancy.

Also, babies so wake and need resetling in the night. A hungry baby is never going to be easily resettles, but that doesn't mean a well fed baby won't wake up. Adequate feeding is the first step towards sleeping through - as in sleeping through cannot possibly happen until baby is getting adequate daytime calories. But it's not the only factor.

Great news that baby has taken more milk in the daytime and that you're always offering more than is drank. This allows baby to have more on hungrier days, as needed.

Carry on using your settling method (dummy and patting, or whatever you do) and once baby is feeding more it should be easier to resettle baby without feeding at nigh. Then you can stretch the time between night time feeds.

Sorry Op but there really is no magic answer. Your baby isn’t broken she is behaving like a normal baby. It won’t last forever and I would just keep going as you are. I think some people assume that FF babies will sleep much longer but some simply don’t, my husband being prime example as he hardly slept until he was 2! That’s not to scare you as that’s an extreme example. Just ride it out and keep doing what you’re doing. For what it’s worth I counted 6 times my 9 month old was awake in the night before it was even light outside (I’ve stopped checking the time!)