Gradual withdrawl method - help needed

[lori21]

We are doing the GW method as described by the Millpond Clinic. We've done the rocking to sleep and are now on the holding to sleep. The next one is the 'holding in cot' to sleep. I'm a bit sonfused about how to do this. I may be being a little thick as I am rather sleep deprived. If anyone else has done it please give me some tips

Thanks

Hi, sorry I havent posted for a bit. We have sort of been doing gw over the last couple of nights. the first night was the same as always, dd wwoke several times throughout the night but most times i was able to settle her in the cot by putting my hands on her chest and cheek, a couple of times I did pick her up and rock her back to sleep though (i know i shouldnt but i was tired! ). last night though the only time i picked her up was to give a bottle and the rest of the times i managed to settle her in the cot still. Am i doing right? she really wanted picking up and was raising her arms at first and pushing me away but within a few minutes she settled right down and started to go to sleep, and i think she was back asleep within 45mins each time? it defintiely seems like an improvement to me, so although i'm still shattered i do feel like we are getting somewhere!
thanks for all your help!

Tibsy and Bikebug hope you both had better nights last night too
lori - thanks for the links, i have just got the millpond clinic book from ebay so will have to find sometime to have a good read of it today. hope things went well for you too last night

Wow tibsy that sounds fantastic. Gives me hope to move onto the next stage.

llynnn - My opinion is that if it is working for you then you must be doing something right. In the Millpond book it is spelt out with military precision but we are not following it to the letter. As every child is so different you have to do what is right for your lo.

Our night was good and bad. The good bits were that he slept from 8.30pm until 11.30pm and from 1am until 5.30am. The bad bit was that he was awake from 11.30pm until 1am with me feeding him, then holding him in his cot (he was wide awake and I was exhasted) so I ended up sat with him on my lap until he fell asleep. This means I only got 4hrs sleep but at least it was in one stretch and he did go back to sleep at 5.30 so i got an extra 'lie in'

Hi, if you don't mind I'll join this thread as am also doing GW (last night was the third night). Have been trying to hold her hands and shsh her to sleep rather than feed in bed every 2 hours which was status quo for last 2 months! Last night not as good as night before but not too bad . She went down not to difficult at 8, slept till 10 (I fed her then as always) then back to sleep no probs. I settled her at midnight but at 2 she really didn't want to settle again so I fed her after about an hour of trying. Not sure if i should have persisted but I was really tired and she was starting escalating cries. Then fed again at 6ish as she was wide awake and gnawing everything in sight. She slept for another hour or so. What do you think, should I just persist in not feeding her no matter what in the middle of the night? She is 5 months...

My lo went through a huge growth spurt between 4 and 6 months so he really needed the feeds in the night. He also was really distractable during the day so made up for it at night. IMHO babies are likely to need milk in the night until they are at least 6 months and I did not try and reduce his feeds until he was 9 months now he is eating and drinking well in the day. I know others have a very different opinion but you do what is right for your lo.

My lo was feeding every hour so I have been gradually increasing the time between feeds. The book suggests increasing by 1/2 hour every 2 days or reducing the time they bf or reducing the amount you give them if bottle fed. If you do this gradually I can imagine that you will get a feel for whether your lo is really hungry or comfort feeding. My lo is now taking much more milk during the day and is now only have one feed at night. He is still waking up though but is usually easily comforted without a feed.

Thanks Lori, that's helpful. I think I'm a bit too desperate to get fast results and realise that is not realistic with this method!

Well done Tibsy - you give us all hope! How long did it take you to get there??

hi ladies
lilysma, it has taken us weeks to get where we are, but i havent wanted to push dd. just want to make sure that shes comfortable with each stage we're working thru iyswim. i agree with lori, the ouside pressure to get babies to night wean if constant. 'arent they sleeping thru the night yet?' is a familiar phrase i agree with you tho that until they are 6 months+, unless they drop night feeds themselves, its important to keep going. my dd has been a bit of a night suckler, using me as a 'dummy', so i have been trying to hold her out for as long as poss. shes 8 months tho. obviously, if shes hungry, i feed her!
lori, tues night sounded good!!! but those 1+ awake periods are a killer arent they
lyynnnn, thanks like improvement, keep going sister!!!
bikebug, how are things with you?

last night for us was mixed cos she's got another cold. even tho shes bf, shes had loads she settled on her own again and self settled several times clever girl! but she was obviously feeling rotten and needed her mama so i brought her in to bed and gave her lots of cuddles. gave her a bit of boob for comfort and she slept ok, bit restless, but slept til 5, when she woke for a huge feed. 5am seems to be her time atm. i guess thats a good indicator shes getting enough thru the day?

lyynnnn, that was sounds like improvement, obviously

Hello again all, well it was the third night for us last night too, and a bit of a bad one. DS fell over at nursery and had a really big bang on the head, so he was feeling sorry for himself and fell asleep in my arms at 6pm. So we put bedtime back for half an hour, but I think his routine was a bit out, and it took over an hour to settle him with soft words and patting in the cot. Had quite a good evening - he settled himself after a couple of cries two or three times - but at midnight he woke up and was really distressed, trying to jump up into my arms out of the cot and crying a lot. I felt that if I could have cracked it and got him back to sleep by himself it would have been a real step forward, but I was just shattered and after trying for an hour I gave up and took him into bed with me. When I picked him up he clung to me like he was never going to let go! Totally sympathise with anyone who tries but is just too tired in the middle of the night - it's so much easier to do this at bedtime than in the wee small hours!

bikebug, poor lo totally agree, nights are the pits! i know they say not to go back a stage, but tbh, i dont think a little flexibility hurts, after all, we've (and lo's) have got to live with it. i think its only tbe that we'll get regressions in times of bumps, illness, developmental changes etc. i prefer to see it (gw or gr) as a 'gentle nudge' in the right direction, and if lo's want to steer us in another direction occasionally, we can always humour them and resume where we left off.
we're all doing a fab job

Ah, he's OK thanks tibsy - not as bad as the night before when he threw himself down in the cot (because he knows he has to lie down to go to sleep!) and hit the bars at the end. He only has one tooth, and it bit up into the gum at the top, exposing a bit of unerupted top tooth. There was blood everywhere. And half an hour later he was asleep. Resiliant things these babies. I know where you're coming from with the 'going backwards' thing - Although we're patting and murmering at bedtime, we're usually still 'holding in cot' at nighttime wakings. I think I need to get tougher though, or he'll end up like me and not sleep through till he's five!

Sounds like we are at a similar stage bikebug. I can do the 'holding in cot' to go to sleep but am really struggling to carry this through into the night time. The crying seems so much worse at 3am Some nights I really struggle to get out of bed to him and feel like I can not hardly open my eyes.

Today I went to visit the school i am on maternity leave from. My return date (early July) is getting ever closer and I am doing full time for a few weeks so I get full pay over the holidays until I go back part time after summer. I can not imagine working full time on 3 hours sleep. My plan is to really put the effort in with this now but as you say tibsy we can only nudge them in the direction we want them to go in. They are strong willed little darlings!

Can I join? I've been lurking for a bit but need to do some serious archive reading still. DD is 10 months and used to be a great sleeper, from 4-6 months. Then all went boobies up with teething, first cold and Christmas disruption and we've never really sorted it since. Have read NCSS and implemented bits of it but we really, really are going to do it properly... Honestly. Once DP has finished reading the book. But can I just ask where one hazy mummy might find the Millpond clinic stuff, just to throw into the mix? Sounds like it's been useful to the other NCSS-inclined among you . Our bed just ain't big enough for all of us any more. And we've got some lovely organic cot sheets that have never been slept on .

Hello, I'll join you if I may.

I've been co-sleeping for a while due to major lazyarseitis and DD's very poor sleep habits however Tibsy inspired me on another thread with her successes so three days ago we started proper with the GR. I'd been holding hands to sleep for weeks and she'd always settle in her cot albeit for a short while but we could normally hold off with a dummy until I went to bed the when she joined me she would always hold my arm or touch me as falling asleep and during the night when she woke up.

Anyhoo, yesterday I progressed from holding hands to standing by the cot whispering. We had a fantastic night. She settled with no tears, woke once. Settled again. Woke at 10.30, fed, woke at 11.30 settled then nothing til 5. This is nothing short of a miracle I can tell you. Anyway. DH brought her into bed then as she was wide awake but she went to sleep until 7.30. I haven't fed her in the night for three nights I thought I'd try and resist but it's been relatively easy. She's settled really easily and not got upset. If she hadn't I would have fed her although I was armed with a bottle of water to try first.

Tonight she settled well again no hands but has woken up twice. A reinsertion of the dummy seems to have settled her but don't know if it's a sign that tonight is going to be horrible and she's going to get me back for telling everyone what a great night last night was!! Anway, I'm greatly (probably naively) encouraged by this and am already fantasising about my post that reads 'she slept all night...'

Ahh, here's to a sleep filled night with no tears

PS If she doesn't settle I'll just be taking a step backwards although not sure I know the 'official' steps I'm just making them up.

Welcome ginerninja and mij, although I am sure i have bumped into you both before on MN

I was lent the millpond book by the HV It is called 'Teach your child to sleep' They have got a website but I have not looked at it yet.

lol at your fantasty post ginerninja. I go to bed each night thinking 'I wonder if he will sleep through tonight'

Anyway we had a good night last night

1. he went to sleep in his cot with my hand on him at 7.30pm
2. he settled himself at about 8.30pm
3. he only woke at 10.30, 12.30, 3.30 and 6.30
4. he was settled back to sleep at those times within about 10minutes hooray

morning all ladies
lori, for your night. i 'cheated' quite a lot during the night time when i first started and brought dd in with us. a girl needs her sleep i just really concentrated on the initial part of the evening and encouraging her to sleep for a couple of hours instead of waking hourly or half hourly [grr]
bikebug poor lo. my dd still hasnt got teeth! shes 8 months today
welcome mij, just saw your post on siftw
hi ginger love your fantasy post!! ive already got my saved somewhere ready to cut and paste
well girls, our night was great
fell asleep at 9pm (later than usual) completely alone as i left the room to check ds was getting to bed!!!!
woke at 4am for bf (in with me)
back to sleep til 7am

hope everyone else got some sleep

is this the millpond you're talking about?

Wow tibsy what a fantastic nights sleep, just a little but also hopeful

Yes that is the website and book that I got the plan from. We were also desperate for some kind of nap routine and I found the suggestion for a routine in the book really suited my lo. Unfortunately another solution in the book is cc but I just ignored that!

Tibsy, thanks for the link, will follow that up.

Lori and ginger, hi from siftw. And I'm clearly more of a pessimist than you, as I found that lowering my expectations helped make night wakings not so bad - if I expect 5 wak-ups then only 3 feels like a good night .

WOW that was an interesting night.

7.15pm went to sleep with me holding him in cot

10.15pm bf and straight back to sleep

2.40am awake and sitting up, tried to get him back to sleep but no luck so..

3.15am gave up - put him in cot awake and walked out

6.30am I woke up to hear him moving about in his cot

SO.... he must have settled himself back to sleep at some time in the early hours and he went for 8 hours without a bf

Anyway a couple of questions

do your lo have toys in their cot and does this help / hinder?

when I stop holding him in his cot what do i do about him pulling himself up to sit when he is meant to be going to sleep?

our night went from the sublime to the ridiculous i'm afraid!! after fabbo thurs night, fri night was crappola
poor dd is full of cold bless her and all she wanted was cuddles [aahh]
she settled really well then kept waking with a really snotty nose and was so snuffly. i brought her down with us for lots of cuddles, then took her to bed with me for more of the same. dp took over with the cuddling when he joined us

lori, that was a great night, he sounds like he's really getting the hang of settling himself and 8 hrs without a bf!!!! with regard to toys, dd doesnt have any apart from a smallish teddy. sometimes she'll play with him a little before going off to sleep, more times tho, not. i guess the danger is that they can get razzed up, but i dont see the harm in a teddy or a comfort of some sort. depends on the child i guess. dd has started trying to sit up in the cot and i've taken to very gently laying her back down, replacing the blankets and saying 'its time to go to sleep now' or something of the like

hope everyone else feeling refreshed and rested [hopeful emoticon!]

Lori, not sure about the sitting up. Hope I master it before then, sounds hard work.

Well Tibsy there was obviously something in the air last night. Just posted on siftw about my night which was a mixed bag. We did get a 5 hour stretch of sleep but it was in our bed after spending 2 hours from 12 trying to settle her and her screaming screaming screaming. She was very upset, had two dirty nappies and just generally not herself so I made allowances. I dont feel like I've lost a great deal, we'll just try again. I think we're making progress just with the not feeding through the night because that is the second, third or fourth can't remember night of sleeping a 5 hour stretch, something that was unheard of two weeks ago. She fed at 12 then not again until 7.15. About 5.30 I had to do a bit of patting but she settled back ok.

just saw your post ginger i think thats just the attitude to see you thru its harder some days than others tho, some days i've got the patience of a saint, others.......not! if dd bit off colour during day, i might start right back at beginning by kissing her face, then when she settles, move down to rubbing her tummy or back. then when i can see she's calm, i'll distance myself further so she does fall asleep with minimal assistance. thats why i love this approach, you're 'nudging' them on, but adapting it to suit the individual bubba
god i'm turning into a gr/gw bore! next thing you know, i'll be standing outside mums and baby groups with a sandwich board

quick message as am supposed to be writing a lecture to give on Monday morning, but just to say lori, good question about the pulling self up to sit. DS pulls himself to standing (and has done since he was very tiny), and drapes his arms and lolls over the cot bars in an attitude of consumptive victorian maiden about to faint. I pick him up, lie him down again and say 'go to sleep'. A friends ds used to fall asleep sitting up when they did cc, so I figure they may not lie down themselves! We had crappy night but are away for the w/end now, so didn't think there was much point in trying too hard before the coming disruption. Hope everyone has a good w/end.

bikebug, i like the image of the consumptive victorian maiden
what do you lecture in?
hope all had good nights, ours was good, bed at 8.45pm [on her own, i was hiding behind the cot, saddo!]
woke at 4.45am for a feed, brought her in with me after as not quite ready to give up early a.m cuddles yet
woke at 7.45am for the day. feel quite rested. i never thought that she would be falling asleep without me doing something to help her. i cant quite believe it
enjoy the rest of the weekend all

hi, if i can join in i'd just like to shout my 5 1/2 month dd did her first sleep through night on friday!!!! and only had half feed before she went to bed!!!!!! didn't sleep through last night but don't care, just once was enough- i'd love to offer a helpful hint or tip, but as we just moved her into her own rom yesterdy we're working on a trial and error basis still- but we always put her in cot awake and leave her to go to sleep in empty room so she hopefully doesn't want us there till she sleeps, also yesterday her first tooth popped through!!!!! so a full nights kip and a tooth! we're chuffed!!!!! HOPE EVERYONE'S SLEEP MATTERS GO WELL!!