Second nap -advice please

[user1492964816]

Little one is generally doing well with sleep but his PM nap has been so hit and miss which started probably around 7 months- he’s now 8 months. I'm probably getting an ok PM nap about 40% of the time which I know is ok, but I just don't know what the issue is 60% of the time.

He has his morning nap 9.00-9.15am at the moment he doesn't tend to be able to go much longer as he gets tired- I generally 99.9% of the time he goes down straight away and snoozes from 1-1.5 hours usually. His next nap I'll then time usually 3 hours after so if he's woken 10-10.45am I'll try and get him down 1-1.45pm and if he wakes 11-11.15am it'll be 2-2.15pm - however if he shows tiredness I will try and put him down if I can. This is where my issue is- I get these scenarios with the PM nap:
A) he goes to sleep straight away
B) he plays for 10-20 mins and then falls asleep
C) he plays for 10-20 mins then he starts crying and it's 50/50 whether I'll get him to sleep as he gets progressively more upset and we enter meltdown territory
D) he cries straight away and it'll be 50/50 whether I'll get him to sleep.

He's been The last 2 options more and more recently.

If I don't get him to sleep I have to take him out for about 30-45 mins in the car or pram- if I have time, just so he gets sleep in -because there is no way he can make it to bedtime without it.

It's probably been up and down for the last 4 weeks, do you think I'm missing the cue and putting him down when he's past the tiredness for it? I have no idea but he seems more awake than tired some afternoons but I can't let him catnap when he wants to cos it'd prob be 4.30pm knowing my luck and I'd not get him to sleep at bedtime. Just wondered if you think it's a phase or I should be trying something else- any advice I’d be grateful for.

By 8 months both of my dc had dropped their morning nap and slept 2 maybe 2 and a half hours in the afternoon.

8 months is the correct age for 2 nap days and your timings seem right to me. I've been following the 2-3-4 schedule since my daughter was about 7.5-8 months old but my one resists the morning nap and I've had similar issues to what you are describing with the first nap but they seem to resolve themselves eventually. I found that if I was too late in putting her down, she would be harder to get to sleep and would wake after just 30 minutes. Too early and she would play then cry as you described and usually not sleep.

Do you always put him to sleep the same way? Do you persevere for the same amount of time when you put him down and he resists? I used a sleep consultant when my daughter was younger and her advice for naps was to consistently use the same method to put baby to sleep and to try for an hour. If no success, then to use pram/car seat to get a short 30-45 min nap so baby doesn't get overtired and then move onto next sleep at the routine time - you seem to be doing exactly this

Ah thanks riddles- he’s not always having his second nap at home- sometimes he’s at my parents, but it used to be easy to put him down and sometimes it still is which makes me think it’s me not being consistent with timings that could be the issue. I usually persevere for about 20-30 mins. He will generally always fall asleep on me but I don’t want to get into that habit!

I think 9-9.15am is a good time for your first nap. I would suggest you start limiting it. The set wake-up time then starts to allow you to pin-point the best time for the afternoon nap and have that at a set time too.

The Gina Ford -type routine would suggest a limited 45 minute nap in the morning, but I don't think limiting to that extent is best for sleep development at this age. I'd take the time baby usually wakes and use that to set your time. You have taken the time to monitor baby's usual habits and note that this nap is usually 1h-1.5h, I would start waking baby at 10.30am from a nap starting 9-9.15

This then gives you an approximation of the 'best time' for your second nap as 1.30pm (3h awake time). But all babies are different. My child liked 2h awake time after the first nap for example, not the recommended 3h. She was also better with an extended 5h awake time before bed, not the recommended 4h.

I say "approximation" because once you have a routine end to the first nap and so can predict the start of the second nap - then you can begin to start monitoring and tweaking until you find what works best for your child. So maybe try 12.30pm or 1pm if it is a stretch getting to 1.30pm, remember that you are limiting sleep in the morning so baby might now go as long as she was previously having had less morning sleep. Keep playing around and watching baby well to find the right timing for your afternoon nap so that going to sleep is easier.

Fate is more experienced than me with baby sleep so I would follow her advice for timings. In my case, the sleep consultant set us into a Gina Ford type routine with morning nap capped at 45 minutes. When she was 7.5-8 months and I switched to the 2-3-4 routine for flexibility, I started letting her sleep longer in the morning and found she goes 1-1.5 hours if left to sleep. I adjusted her afternoon nap accordingly and she goes 2-2.5 hours in the afternoon. My one can go for longer between morning and afternoon nap which works well for me in terms of taking her out and activities but she does 3.5-4 hours max wake time between afternoon nap and bed.

From what I've learnt, it shouldn't be a problem if he's at your parents for the next nap as long as they way you are putting him to sleep is consistent and the sleep environment is appropriate - so in my case, we have a dark room with travel cot at my parents, play white noise as we do at home and follow the same routine in putting her down - sleeping bag on, nursery rhyme, white noise on and put to sleep. At my parents, she needs someone to be with her as she falls asleep whereas she puts herself to sleep at home - we just follow her lead with that.

Thanks for everyone’s advice :)