3yo with sleep problems and expecting another baby.....at my wits end and very apprehensive

[Badgersocks]

Hi I'm currently 40+3 weeks pregnant with our second daughter so basically ready to drop! The issue at the moment is with DD1 who will be 3 years old in a few weeks......
She has never been a great sleeper but improved about 6 months ago when she dropped her daytime nap and moved into a toddler bed. Still not 100% reliable sleeper but a hell of a lot better..... until the last few weeks....
She goes to bed at 7/7:30pm and falls asleep fine after her usual bedtime routine, but wakes up usually about 10pm and then we have HOURS of messing around, crying, stalling going back to bed, being naughty in her room etc.
My husband tries to help but all she ever wants is me and screams 'my mummy my mummy' constantly until I go in to her but I still can't settle her. She won't say why she's awake or what the matter is, I think a lot of it is attention seeking (which she gets plenty of during the day, particularly since I started Mat leave and am always with her).
Tonight she was awake from 10pm-3pm
It is doing my head in, not only as I'm shattered as well and massively pregnant, but it is taking all the joy out of expecting another LO. All I can think about is how hard life is going to be. My husband works 2 weeks of day shifts followed by 2 weeks of night shifts so every other fortnight I will be having to deal with both girls on my own and I'm petrified how I'm going to cope.
I'm already starting to feel extremely anxious, depressed and terribly guilty that this baby seems more like an added burden at the moment and that I am starting to feel resentful to my 3yo.
I suppose I just want to know if anyone else has experienced similar and has any idea what might help my eldest daughter sleep better, or how I am supposed to cope on my own at night in the meantime due to toddler night tantrums and breastfeeding a newborn? X

Hi OP. I'm 35 weeks pregnant with a 2 year old and can only imagine how exhausting this is. I'm shattered even with reasonable sleep!

Does your DD have a good understanding of what is about to happen? I would imagine at 3 she does whereas at just 2 my DD doesn't really.. Having said that, my DD is also very clingy and mummy oriented at the moment.

The thing that has changed is you being on mat leave. I think the two things have to be related. Is she anticipating that one night you may leave to have the baby and she wants to make sure you're still there? Have you talked her through the plan for when the baby comes? Is someone else coming to look after her?

This is a big transition she's getting ready for. I would expect that even with a lot of reassurance she will be unsettled now. Still, I would make sure she knows exactly what to expect as much as is possible.

Btw I get the "my mummy" thing too, all of a sudden! I realised that at her daycare I'm referred to as "DDs mummy" and shes suddenly got an awareness that other people have their own mummy's. It's like a sense of ownership. Related to impending new baby also? Who knows!

Sorry I realised I didn't really give you any tips because I don't have any. You might find that this passes once baby arrives and the "big thing" she is anticipating has happened.

I'd be coming down hard. Jesus. Awake for 4 hours! My 3 yr old wouldn't dare. Seriously I'd turn into the hulk.

Stop allowing it. You need to be firm, non negotiable and do rapid return to her room.

@StinkPickle she is clearly awake for 4 hours for a reason, it is about finding out what that is. Rapid return just means putting a wide awake child back to their room as punishment.

I really feel for you as I have a 3 year old and a baby coming in December.
I think given how bad things are you could use some professional support. Could you ask your gp for help with the 3 year old, or maybe hire a sleep consultant?

crazycatlady5 if you think Rapid Return is punishment, you are woefully ill-informed. Pray tell your direct experience of parenting a toddler on which you base such an outright unhelpful statement?

Badgersocks - if sleep has changed in the last few weeks and maternity leave started in the last few weeks then I'd suggest the two are linked.

Toddlers don't generally react well to routine changes and you being at home all the time is a big change. There will be much bigger changes to come, with a new baby in the way.

My brain wants to suggest not sleep training at this close to your due date. But my heart knows that I started sleep training DC1 when I was 38 weeks pregnant with DC2 because I was feeling so anxious about sleep with two children. So I completely empathise with the situation you are in.

Logically, the only think I would tackle right now is the "my mummy" thing. Fact is, with two children to care for your DH is going to have to take primary responsibility for your eldest (when he is at home) so that you can focus on baby. You cannot slip yourself in two, so this insistence you and only you deal with her has to stop. And it has to stop now.

I'd suggest that starting from tonight, DH is 'Chief Parent' in dealing with your eldest in the night. And be consistant about it. It's not like she's not going to be cared for and nurtured with her Dad doing it. But it is a necessary aspect of life with a baby and toddler.

BTW - congratulations LapinR0se, I didn't know you were expecting. Congratulations to you too OP.

@FATEdestiny Not being unhelpful, I disagreed with a PP about something, mumsnet forums are full of different opinions, obviously, otherwise we'd all do everything the same and wouldn't be here asking for advice. For me, constantly putting a child back in their bed when they're wide awake isn't sorting out night wakings, it's just saying 'if you wake in the night you stay here, or else'. That, to me, is punishment. Again, my opinion only.

Have you got any experience in being the parent of a toddler crazycatlady5?

You know when you were pregnant and had no experience of parenting a baby, did do some planning about what you thought life would be like with a baby? Now you have a 10 month old, was life with a baby as you expected it would be? Have you parented in the way you thought you would?

When you have birth, did you go straight into cosleeping or have you changed your thoughts on matters when faced with the realities of what parenting is like.

It is for all of these reasons why it is unhelpful for you to pass negative and judgmental comments on things you have absolutely no experience of. By all means say things like "I wouldn't use rapid return when my child is a toddler". Just expect it'll be taken in the same knowing tone as first time pregnant woman saying she will never cosleep.

Everyone can have your opinions. But try not to be rude about other peoples, especially ones you have no concept aside from secondary reading. It's not helpful and it is not necessary.

@FATEdestiny I don't have a 10 month old

I don't feel I was being rude at all. We'll agree to disagree.

My mistake. You have a 7 or 8 month old I think (?)

Have you got any experience in being the parent of a toddler crazycatlady5?

When you were newly pregnant with your first, did you give any thought to what life would be like with a baby? Now you have a 7 or 8 month old was life with a baby as you expected it would be? When you have birth, did you go straight into cosleeping or have you changed your thoughts on matters when faced with the realities of what parenting is like.

It is for all of these reasons why it is unhelpful for you to pass negative and judgmental comments on things you have absolutely no experience of. Helpful and positive comments on stuff you talk about theoretically can only be good. Judgmental crap, not so much.

@FATEdestiny it's fun being told off - I feel like I'm at school again

Try not to feed so much 'judgemental crap' to those parents who choose to feed and rock their babies to sleep, yeah? Have seen plenty of times you've said how much of a terrible habit it is. Seems you could take some of your own advice.

Wow thank you for all your responses I've only just seen them. I agree that Mat leave has changed things in a way I never saw coming. If anyone had asked a few weeks ago how DD might be when baby comes I'd have been pretty confident to say I think she'll be great. Now however she seems to have gotten very attached and I am no longer so hopeful!
I probably do need to be a bit firmer but when she's saying she needs the toilet or is hungry I think she knows I'm going give in!
We've been through sleep training in the past, seen health visitor and one of their sleep specialists, GP, paediatrician, even paid £300 for private sleep advice! In the end I just concluded she was a rubbish sleeper then she suddenly improved without a daytime nap until now.
I'm going to try the suggestion of talking to her in the day about when the baby comes, and also try not to get so engaged at night time. My husband tries to be fair when he is home at nights but I often take over as she's still crying for me so need to stop that.
Thanks ladies it's good to know there are people in the same boat and congrats to all those who are expecting too x

Hi op,

I'm going through sleep problems with my almost 4 year old which started when DS was born 12 months ago.

They aren't as extreme as yours as she does sleep but wakes 3/4/5/10 times a night shouting "please will you tuck me in (covers deliberately pushed off)/ I can't find my snuggy / I need a drink / sometimes can you read me a story (at 3am!)

It started when DS was in the crib on our room and we put up with it as we thought she felt left out being on her own room but she's still doing it even though he has his own room. She does go straight back to sleep though but then half hour later it happens again...and again...it's exhausting.

The only thing that has had any success for us is a reward chart and I need to get back into that again.

My problem is she told me she shouts because she is scared of monsters and I feel terrible at the thought of her lying there scared and no one going to her. Probably being a push over there really!

So no advice as such, just solidarity!

Solidarity is good! It certainly helps putting things in perspective that it's not just me having these problems.
As with everything hopefully this will be just a phase and I appreciate all the advice x

I agree that Mat leave has changed things in a way I never saw coming

You may well be surprised again when baby arrives. The assumption is eldest regresses at the arrival of a sibling, but maybe she'll come over all Big Sister and adapt with ease.

Realistically, this close to due date I wouldn't rock the boat where it's unnecessary. She's got to adapt to comfort from Daddy but aside from that, I'd give it a month and see where things settle.

In the mean time, try to keep things as normal as possible. Give her predictability and consistancy in her days so that life feels settled as much as possible.

Fate that sounds like very sensible advice actually and about all I feel able to cope with doing at the moment. I'm having a sweep tomorrow so really hoping that will get things moving along so we can just get onto the next phase in our lives and see what that brings.... I'm hoping it's as you suggest and she'll love being a big sister. Plus it means DH can start his paternity 2 weeks which will be a massive help!

Ps this is the first time I've really asked for help from mumsnetters as I'm a serial lurker and it really helped so thank you all very much

Wondering how your sweep went today? Today is a good day to have a birthday, it's my birthday today

We must have daughters the same age, because my youngest 3rd birthday was yesterday. We were half an hour from sharing the same birthday 🎂

And if you manage to hold out to the weekend - that's my son's birthday. Gotta love September birthdays!

Happy birthday!! Hope it's been a good one! I read the other day that 26th Sep is the most popular day for births, Everyone doing the deed around Christmas I suppose
Sweep was not as bad as I remembered which was good, a few little niggles this eve but hasn't turned into anything yet.
I hope it's soon as I actually feel awake today as my daughter slept ALL NIGHT last night! Took her to docs yesterday and she has a red and inflamed ear (likely viral) so was advised to dose up on calpol and nurofen. I think the drugs had something to do with her sleeping so well! X

I read that too - except all mine were around 2 weeks late so doesn't fit with the Christmas thing. I do always feel most broody around December, must be the long, dark nights.

I hope you're not waiting too long for baby to arrive and great news about your daughter last night.

My DD turned 3 on 26th September too