Daytime naps for 4 month old

[sunnyfields25]

Hi

My DS is 4 months old now and I'd love it if I knew roughly when he might nap from one day to the next. I don't expect to stick rigidly to specific times, but some sort of structure would be good (I am very much a structure sort of person!).

If I could explain the current set-up, please feel free to offer any thoughts on where I could improve things...

DS normally has one long nap each day lasting 2 to 2.5 hours (sometimes even 2 hours and three quarters). This long nap is usually either first nap of the day, meaning he's asleep most of morning, or it's the next nap, over lunchtime. But then all other naps are quite short (30-45 mins). He normally sleeps between 4 and 5 hours a day.

I breastfeed and use an eat/play/sleep approach. I find this good as I'm not feeding to sleep, but it means that if DS wakes up after a short nap, he's not really hungry but I offer him a feed anyway just to maintain this order of things. Lately it's resulting in him having several 'snacky' feed rather than proper full ones.

I think if I could get DS up at the same time every morning that would be a good start, as it might help to regulate the naps. But I'm not sure how to achieve that. Sometimes he lasts from the dreamfeed until 6.30am, in which case that's when his day starts (re-settling takes too long so pointless putting him back to bed). However, if he wakes up at 4.30 or 5.30am then he has just fallen back asleep when I get up, so I leave him until 8ish so he has another decent chunk of sleep. No point feeding, spending 45 mins settling and then waking him up straight away to start the day. DH gives this night/early morning feed using expressed milk so I get a bit more sleep. Trade-off is that I stay up later to do the dream feed.

It's all a vicious cycle because the time the day starts will determine his daytime naps and then ultimately affect bedtime, which can be anywhere from 7.30pm to 9.30pm (falling asleep). Bedtime then affects the dream feed time (too soon after and he's not hungry, too late and he wakes before I get to him). And dream feed time then affects the early morning wake-up time. It's all linked together, and I can't figure out where to start trying to have a set time for something.

DS settles fairly well through the day in his Sleepyhead with a dummy, although I have to loiter nearby to keep dummy in his mouth until he nods off. But things go downhill through the day and I can only get him to have an evening nap by holding him, and then bedtimes are horrendous with lots of crying. But that's a whole other issue which I've posted about previously.

Any thoughts or advice greatly appreciated

Lately it's resulting in him having several 'snacky' feed rather than proper full ones

You've got no way of knowing that is the case, and i wouod suggest it isn't.

After breast feeding my first two children, I used to think frequent feeds must be "snacky" feeds. Then DC3 came along who failed to thrive breastfeeding so was formula fed from 3 weeks old.

I followed the wake/feed/play/sleep cycles like you. But that tine around was giving bottles, so knew exactly how much milk baby was having. I can tell you that his milk massively increased around 4 months. Just like my other children, he had these cycles of about 60-90m awake time then a nap and often those naps were just 30 minutes (which isn't unusual) so feeds might be every 2 hours. Sometimes a feed every 90m tgrough the day, never more than 2h30m between feeds.

But you know What? Every one of those feeds was a full feed. Not a small snacky amount, but a full feed even if it was ever 2 hours throughout the day. So don't be so quick to assume that fast breastfeed = small amount of milk. Of course try to reduce distractions and encourage as much of a feed as you can. But baby may just be being more efficient and effective at feeding.

As for timings, I always follow a cyclic routine based on monitoring awake time between naps. If the previous naps were shorter then shorten awake time, if the previous nap was longer then lengthen awake time.

I would have awake times anywhere between 45m-90m at this age, depending on nap length. Routine coming from a set wake up time in the morning and then predictable cycles of awake and asleep time

Hi FATE, thanks for replying.

Yes you're right about the quick feeds, I suppose I'll never actually know how much he's drinking. Although there are times when it's literally a minute or two and then he just stops and grins at me because he's not interested. But he at least takes some (and hopefully it's more than I think!).

You mentioned routine coming from set wake-up time. Just wondered if you have any thoughts on how I could achieve that? Not sure if I've explained the problem very well - the time DS wakes for early morning feed varies, and once you factor in settling time, sometimes we just have to start the day earlier than other days. It would Almost be better if he woke at 4ish every morning and then slept until I woke him up. Rather than sometimes waking at an awkward time that's kind of too early for daytime, but too late for getting him back to sleep.

Thanks!

PS I wasn't sure if it's an issue that he's having one long nap in the morning, and then shorter (and more difficult) naps for the rest of the day. I don't like the idea of waking him from his long nap though in case it causes new problems!

You mentioned routine coming from set wake-up time. Just wondered if you have any thoughts on how I could achieve that?

I'm not you, but what I'd do is drop the dreamfeed for a while.

Early mornings are the hardest time to get baby back to sleep, compared to middle of the night. So instead of an 11pm nap and 5am nap (or whatever) I'd stop waking for the dreamers and accept a 1-2am feed. Compensation being a more reasonable and consistant morning wake up.

Correction: So instead of an 11pm feed and 5am feed (or whatever) I'd stop waking for the dreamfeed and accept a 1-2am feed.

Honestly, I think it's quite difficult to have a structured routine with a breastfed baby. Their needs change massively from month to month I find, so one day she might nap at a certain time, the next it won't work as she's hungry etc. I do believe going by awake time is easier.

I had a similar situation to you (mine now nearly 6months old). I found it was helpful to put in set feed times. Obviously I feed earlier if hungry, but it's amazing how often he now tells me he's hungry 5 mins before 'food time'. Personally I went for 7.00, 11.00, 2.00 5.00 and 6.30. It obviously doesn't always work out, but it gives something to aim for, and makes me feel like I have some idea how the day will pan out. Naps for us fit well around these feed times (with long nap between 9-11 or between 12-2 and 2 other short naps). I usually don't end up feeding immediately before a nap, but even if I do I don't consider it an issue, as it's not every time, and I don't feed to sleep, so it's not forming a habit.

I understand what you're saying about wake up times too - mine sleeps through but often wakes about 5.30-6.00, whereas ideally I want to start the day at 7.00. I sometimes have to accept that the day is starting early, but if he doesn't cry, I leave him chatting in his cot for as long as poss or until 7.00. Sometimes he will doze, or just sing.

Mainly due to set feeding times, our days are now a bit more organised and I can plan activities, even if we sometimes have to ditch them!

Interesting idea about dropping the dream feed FATE, hadn't thought of that. I'm not sure I'm brave enough to tinker with it. Although I get that the trade-off could be a more consistent wake-up time in the morning.

Yep crazycatlady5 I know what you mean. I quite often find myself comparing DS to FF babies who are in a reliable napping routine, but I suppose it's a different kettle of fish.

Saz467 - I hadn't thought of not getting DS up straight away if he wakes early. Although obviously I could only leave him if he was happy, and most of the time he's ravenous having gone for a big chunk of time without food. I'm quite envious of your routine!