Help me do controlled crying

[DjangoElephants]

11 month old DS has been an awful sleeper since the 4 month regression. My lovely DH does his best to help and this morning he crashed the car on the way to work because he was so tired. I have to fix this for all of us. Up until now we have coslept/breastfed but he doesn't resettle after a nightfeed and is up a good hour to two screaming and us walking him. Tonight is our night. Do I need the book or is the bottom line do bedtime routine and pop in cot then come back to check every 2,5,10?

I didn't do controlled crying but a lot of my friends have. Be prepared for a few awful nights at least. Maybe dp could sleep downstairs/spare room for a few days?
As far as I know it's pop back in every 2 mins and then add 30 second on each time after the first 10 mins. No picking up though.

Yep. Bedtime routine. Go in every 2 mins then 3 then 4 then 5 then 6 then 7 then 8, 8, 8 etc.
Do not pick up. Lay them down if they are standing. Repeat, it's bedtime now.
Prepare for 1-2 hours of misery for both of you. It will take 3 nights usually.

If they've been feeding a lot in the night, you may not want to night wean simultaneously as baby will be hungry and screaming for that, which is a bit harsh. Decide at what time you will feed (5am is reasonable if you night wean) and whether you are doing controlled crying for night wake ups too.

You poor thing, it's very very hard for you.

I've successfully done CC (it's about control, reassuring often and regularly - it isn't about leaving a baby to cry) with DC1, by the time DC4 needed to learn to sleep I did the 'shush/pat' method. Agree with the PP - no picking up.

I'd probably take a two step approach, given he's been co-sleeping and bf. I'd start with putting him in his cot (warm it with a hot water bottle first) and in his own room. Then I'd sit on the floor with my hand on his chest/tummy. Probably a couple of nights, of of sush/pat. It does take time, maybe put a mattress on the floor for you. I did this with DC4, took a while but same result.

Or, you just bite the bullet, put him in his cot, walk away, go back after 30 seconds, a minute etc. My experience of this took 20 minutes the first night, less the second, and by the third we'd cracked it. He's nearly 16 now and shows no sign of any harm caused by doing this.

I totally understand how you are feeling. Good luck.

your alternative is to night wean first and then do cot (look at jay Gordon google) as co-sleeping plus breast feeding on demand to sleeping alone with no feeds is a big step for both in one go.
We did speeded up gradual retreat as per the "what worked for us" thread with excellent success after night weaning at 9-10 months

It's the hardest thing but worth it imo. You & DH are going to need to steel yourselves & commit to it 100% as backing out will reinforce you DC's crying. I can't remember the timeframes but you'll be able to find out on google. Once you think you've cracked it & your DC has settled for a few nights he will likely revert back to crying etc. In behavioural terms, this is an extinction burst -it doesn't mean failure and as long as you stick to whatever CIO routine you did initially it will settle quickly. Good luck.

Not planning on night weaning at the same time. I just need him to settle after he's been fed without ages of walking or falling asleep on DH. Lately the only place he will sleep for more than 45 min is DH, hence the car crash. So feed, quick cuddle pop in cot then repeat the going in and out?

For a baby who is currently fed during the night and co sleeping I really wouldn't recommend cc as a first sleep training method. And I say that as someone who did cc. With ds he started to wake every 60-90 minutes at 7 months and would need milk (in increasingly tiny amounts)and rocking for at least 30 minutes to go back to sleep. He wouldn't Co sleep. What I did was taught him how to go to sleep alone at naps, I did this by feeding (if he needed it) downstairs then taking him upstairs awake, drawing the curtains and staying with him rubbing his back u til he went to sleep. I then gradually started to leave the room earlier and earlier until he went to sleep alone (with a dummy and teddy?).

Then we night weaned him, at 11 months they don't need milk during the night. We offered water and then rocked him to sleep. Then we did cc as I knew he could settle himself off to sleep (from naps) and that he didn't need milk. First waking I went in and lay him back down stroked his head and left, I then went in every 2 minutes for around 30 minutes. When he hadn't gone to sleep I went and 'slept' in the roo with him (there was a bed at the other end of the room) but no milk or rocking, 'just the occasional 'time for sleep now'. In total it took 3-4 week with the cc taking one night, after which he slept through, or at least settled himself.

Does he have a dummy?
How does he nap? How often, how long?

No dummy but not from lack of trying on my part. He takes one nap a day for 45 minutes if I'm lucky sometime around midday. But he needs to be walked until asleep then wakes as I transfer him into our bed then fed to sleep. He's so tired today I've spent two hours trying to get him to nap and nothing. I could just cry. My older child has been glued to the iPad all morning.

He sounds chronically over tired. Will he sleep in the buggy? If so then I would get him in it and go for a long walk at 10.30 ish (depending when he wakes in the morning) and then again at 3 ish. I am generally pro cc (and I know a lot on here aren't)but my fear is that with an over tired, night feeding co sleeping baby and exhausted parents you would start the process and your baby will become very distressed, you would become frustrated, upset and, well just too tired and the boob is just there so you would feed him to sleep to just get some rest.
I think it might be more effective address some of the sleep issues one at a time, so long walks in the buggy to address the over tiredness, night weaning so that you won't be constantly wondering if he is in fact hungry, progressing to gradual retreat for naps, the cot sleeping, then cc if he still doesn't settle.

I would recommend buying Three Day Nanny's book to give you a guide. She also recommends noting down times to stick to, as well as tracking the lulls in crying, showing they are 'thinking', I breastfed til 18 months but used this method to night wean at around 11 months got reasons similar to yours. It was awful and you both need to be 100% on board. Also be consistent and do t give up. What helped me was thinking about not wanting to 'waste' even a minute of the crying/heartache baby has been through so far by giving up. My daughter still sleeps and naps brilliantly at 2 and a half, going to bed happily and settling herself after stories, a hug and kiss, whilst a lot of my natural parenting / anti sleep training friends still have major major issues with their 3 and 4 year olds going to bed and toddler naptimes.

To add, it was awful, but 100% worth it.

DjangoElephants how would you feel about being in the room with baby through the screaming?

You could feed then and put baby into the cot awake. Then stand by the cot re-lying back down, shushing and whatnot.

No noticeable difference in crying, but at least you would be there to reassure your child. Having never had any experience of going to sleep alone or in the cot, baby may well be very disoriented.

Sometimes he will drop off in the buggy but only after an hour or so of walking which my 4 year old isn't so keen on and only adds to my exhaustion. He won't sleep in the car and spends most car rides crying. I have to do the school run at 2:30 so can't do a 3 nap. He used to take two 45 min naps but now fights the morning nap so hard I've dropped it. It's now 1:30 and he's slept maybe a total of 10 minutes on the boob. He looks absolutely shattered but eventually I have to get on with the day.

I think I'll cave in and pick him up if I'm in the room. I just can't watch him scream. DH in the hospital for the foreseeable future so I need to fix this while he's not here and healing. My attempt at being baby led nearly killed DH, literally. The amount of guilt is fairly overwhelming.

I think I'll cave in and pick him up if I'm in the room. I just can't watch him scream

You think being out of the room and helplessly listening will be easier?

To be honest you don't sound like your in the right kind of frame of mind to cope with this right now, sleep training needs large amounts of strength and resilience.

Is tonight, given your what has happened to your husband today, really the best night to do this?

Are you well in yourself? I remember when my firstborn was around the same age driving to work one morning and wishing I had a car accident. Anything to give me an extended period of sleep without responsibilities. It was realising the significance of this thought that got me to the doctors to talk about my own mental health and catastrophsising. I was then stronger to better face our sleep issues with more resilience and strength.

Oh no, you poor thing, that sounds absolutely horrible for all of you I would feel exactly the same in your situation but please don't feel guilty, you were doing what you felt was best for your family ay the time.

I haven't used CC myself as I sleep trained my daughter when she was too young for it but I used a sleep consultant and there was information on it in the pack she provided. Also a lot of things she taught me apply to whichever method of sleep training you use.

The most important thing is consistency. A pp said about not wanting to waste a minute of crying the baby is going through - they hit the nail on the head with this. Once you start it, don't turn back and don't cave until the chosen timeframe is up. When you give in, they realise how long and hard they need to cry for before you will give in.

Decide on your timeframe after which you will go in and reassure him and use a stopwatch to stick to it. With regards to night feeds - you will need an interval after which you will feed him. Again, have this clear in your head before you start. I was advised by my sleep consultant that if she wakes up before that time and is still awake when I would have fed her, to still let her go to sleep and give her a feed the next time she wakes. Eg, if you set 6 hours as the min interval before you feed, he wakes after 5.5 hours and is awake for an hour, he doesn't get a feed just because its gone into 6 hours, he needs to wait for the next time he wakes. We never got into this situation when I sleep trained but I was told to do this if it did occur.

Start introducing a comforter when you breastfeed him and when he is sleeping so he associates that with sleep. Have a bedtime routine and a nap time routine. So once you start, he falls asleep exactly the same way in his cot for all sleeps for a week at least.

I can imagine that you are in a difficult place with DH in hospital right now - would it be possible for you to wait for a few days until everything calms down? It's just that we literally put everything on hold to sleep train my daughter and for one week, everything fitted around her sleep and nap times. I can see this being quite tough for you at the moment. Would your budget allow for a consultant to hold your hand through it? (We paid just under £100 for ours)

Posters on here are absolutely lovely but my experience showed me that having lots of different opinions meant I was anything but consistent so doing it with a sleep consultant was the calmest way.

No, I'm not in a great frame of mind but now that DH is in the hospital I have to do something. He will scream the place down if I don't walk him back to sleep every time he wakes to feed which is every two hours. If I just try to lay with him he full on screams. I figure I might as well have all the crying actually amount to something and move us forward. I was on my knees with DH helping. If I thought I could just keep muddling along I would but I'm getting about 4 hours a night and it's just not sustainable. I'd thought about a sleep consultant but I haven't a foggy how to pick a good one?

Absolutely do it!

If you're going to do it, make all the changes so it's a painful few days but then it's done.

Bedtime routine - specific order to help 'healthy' sleep habits

Pjs
Milk
Teeth
Gro bag
Bedroom
Shut curtains
Book
Cuddle
Bed - wide awake

For the timebeing, do the same book at every sleep, it's a good cue.

Then put down, lay down and say goodnight.

Sit outside room - get something comfortable.

Listen - 1 minute of full crying before you go back in. Don't just time it, listen. If he stops then restart the clock.

Go into the room, aiming to be there for 30 seconds - 1 minute MAX. Don't lift out of the okay. Just lay back down if stood up and say something along the lines of 'there there, its okay, it's time to sleep now' and leave again. You're not there to resettle, just to tell them that you're still there.

Repeat as above at 2 minutes then 5 minutes until he's asleep.

Work out your tactic for nighttime. I'd put down to bed at 7ish and say that you're not going to feed him before a set time and that you're only going to feed him once before 7am. At 11 months, personally, I'd completely night wean but whatever you're comfortable with.

Repeat the settling for night wakings and naps and you should be pretty sorted in 3-4 days.

Good luck! Hope your DH is okay.

I can imagine it being really tough for you to stay consistent when you are worried about your DH and have another child to look after on your own. Why don't you use the next 24 hours to research sleep consultants and if you find one you like who is available, have them guide you through it.

Unfortunately with sleep training, it does get worse before it gets better so you want to try get yourself as strong as possible to deal with the hard parts of it and ideally have someone to hold your hand through it, even more so as your husband won't be at home to do it with you.

If you would like, I can message you the details of the person I used. There is also a website I absolutely love that gives lots of info on baby sleep - they offer consultancy services. I have never used their services for sleep consulting but if its anything like the information on the website, I can imagine them being very good too.

How well does he eat op? The thing that leapt out of your last post was that he wakes to feed every 2 hours, but it's the walking which gets him to sleep. Waking every 2 hours for mikk is perfectly normal for newborns but absolutely not for almost one year olds, does he feed to sleep or does he feed then you walk about/have him on dhs chest to sleep?

He will scream the place down if I don't walk him back to sleep every time he wakes to feed which is every two hours. If I just try to lay with him he full on screams.

That's completely unsustainable.

You mention cosleeping. Are you feeding, walking (for ages...) then putting baby in bed with you already asleep? Why have you not put in the cot before now? Especially if putting baby down when already asleep.

Anyhoo - it's completely unsustainable to do this walking thing all the time. Definately just feed and put down im cot - that's what baby needs. Put down awake.

Yes, she'll scream. I can't see any reason for you not being there to reassure through this. Aside from it making you feel better about not to being there to see baby distressed. But the point of doing the reassurance is to make baby feel better (as a priority over your feelings). But if you don't want to be there with her... well, it's your conscience that needs to be settled, not mine. Only you can know what best serves your child. She's not being helped in any way by what is currently happening, so it is in her best interests for something to be done differently.

Finally DjangoElephants - you need to set your expectations. This may not be a magic wand.

Yes, if you are consistent and very rigid in leaving her to cry, she will learn fairly quickly that she'll be going to sleep in her cot on her own. But she probably won't stop waking in the night completely. So you will need to develop a longer term plan of what you will do when she wakes and is not feed. By then she should be easier to settle, so it should be quicker to deal with. But you need to set your expectations realistically that you'll still be woken up in the night and need you to get up.

Anecdotal evidence: CC/CIO "worked" with 3 days for my child. But she has remained an insecure sleeper. Her 13th birthday next week. She still comes into my room/bed for night time reassurance every now and again. Still sleeps with a light on. I question if it actually "worked" long term. But it certainly stopped the need to rock to sleep very quickly. She was 13 months at the time. Started sleeping solidly for 12 hours at about 2y6m. Scared of the dark for over 10 years. "Needy" when upset or scared for, forever probably. But yes, it "worked" really successfully if your success criteria is being able to go to sleep in the cot. I learnt from my mistakes of DC1 and did things very differently for my 3 subsequent children. All much more secure in their sleep long term. Anecdotally obviously.

How did it go?