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Night time milk

15 replies

cumbrimum · 23/08/2017 19:52

How much formula overnight would you think is reasonable at 9months? I think DS maybe have Sleep association since I switched from breast feeding to formula feeding about a month ago? He's always been a bad sleeper but it's just getting worse and worse Sad
He has 3 good meals a day plus snacks and 3x 7/8oz bottles between the hours of 6am-7pm....I would assume that's probably enough?!
But then he wakes at least twice a night (about 11pm and 4am) and will not settle without another bottle! He happily drains 7oz again each time! (He wakes in between these times also but usually will go back off with a dummy insert and a bit of shush/pat).
Do I need to completely night wean or could he genuinely be hungry??
Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated.....

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dementedpixie · 23/08/2017 20:43

I got rid of a night feed by gradually reducing the amount in the bottle

FATEdestiny · 23/08/2017 20:52

Mine was on 4 bottles a day at 9 months. No night feeds and my DDs meals were big portions and mulit-course.

Given yours is taking so much milk overnight, I would be inclined to swap around your meals/feeding routines to fit in an extra bottle (or two) in the day. It probably isn't needed, I agree that it's probably more of a milk to sleep association. But just to be sure if you do decide to go cold turkey.

cumbrimum · 24/08/2017 10:02

Thanks both Smile I've considered the 'watering it down' idea but not sure if that's safe?! Reducing the amount seems more sensible! Think I'll try ads in an extra bottle during the day and see how we get on. Managed to only give 1 bottle overnight last night at 11:30 but he was unsettled from 4-6...in light sleep I guess you would say?...where as if I give him full bottle he's flat out til 06:30!

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FATEdestiny · 24/08/2017 13:50

At this age and stage of weaning, watering formula down (ie making up the same volume but with fewer scoops of formula) isn't dangerous. The NHS stress the safety of not watering formula more in younger babies, where the nutritional value of the milk is vitally important and when milk of baby's only nutrients. Now yours is well into weaning, watered down overnight formula is just another type of drink amoungst many that baby could have - rather than it having necessary nutritional value.

Unsettled periods of time in the night is normal for some babies, so I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that this is happening. Just have settling methods that are conducive to independant sleep long term - so in-cot settling without milk.

cumbrimum · 25/08/2017 07:12

That's gr8 to know thanks. Think that might be a good option for me to water it down a bit in the hope of him loosing interest?!!
Last night was not good. Bed at 7:30 then awake at 09:30-tried to settle in cot with dummy but no joy so gave 7oz bottle at 10:30. Woke at 1am settled after 20mins but couldn't take my arm off him or he would start to stir. Woke at 3am, again would not settle so gave another 7oz bottle then he slept til 5:30 Confused
Don't know what to do with him. He's so reliant on dummy, milk, me!, I don't think he has any idea how to sleep Sad He sleeps in cot next to my bed with side off which was working ok but now he's mobile it's just not working anymore as he rolls over onto all fours then is up and scrambling around coming into my bed. He likes to fall asleep holding my hand so o have no idea how I will ever get him in his own room.
...,I fear some sleep training ahead but can't bear even the thought Sad

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FATEdestiny · 25/08/2017 07:58

Your post reads a bit like catastrophising, is your mental healthy ok at the moment? Some support might help you.

He will need to rely on something for comfort to get to sleep for several more years. At the moment that's milk, you and the dummy. As a result of this thread it sounds like you are trying to wean off milk being needed as that comfort.

Once milk isn't baby's comfort, then you can wean off you being the comfort. That leaves just the dummy, which baby should be able to learn to use independantly (ie on his own)

It need not be like this forever. It's just like it is now. Plus, most importantly (for how you feel about your DS's sleep), you are making progress towards independant sleep. It's not like you're doing nothing and hoping it will get better on its own. As is needed to gently see changes in baby sleep, you are keeping the progress towards independant sleep going. Then you knowyoull get there in the end.

If baby is rocking on all-fours, this is the start of a really difficult sleep phase. The need to teach baby to be still in the cot at deep time is challenging, to say the least. When baby is pulling to standing and has to be repeatedly laid back down is harder still.

I had the side back on the cot at this stage, still next to my bed though. But thst means sitting up in bed and leaning over the cot to still baby. If you don't have the reserves (emotional or in terms of exhaustion and energy) to make in-cot settling harder for yourself, then it might be easier to keep the side off the cot. It depends what you think you'll cope with best.

crazycatlady5 · 25/08/2017 08:34

Hi Op, he WILL sleep on his own eventually he might just not be there yet. So often we're told 'you're making a rod for your own back, he/she will always rely on you' etc. That is of course not true! I don't know many university students who still need Mum and dad to put them to bed Smile if it were me (and of course we're all different) I would go with what works for now such as milk as it's obviously what he wants and then re-evaluate later on, maybe at the 1 year mark. As I said though we're all different xx

cumbrimum · 25/08/2017 09:56

Morning both. Thanks for the replies, it's nice just to talk it over Smile
My mental health is ok thanks Fate, but not gna lie the sleep deprivation is definitely making life feel a bit of a challenge! DH is gr8 tho. I also have a 3 year old so it's full on with no nursery over summer etc which probably isn't helping Confused
I keep clinging to the 'it's not forever' but it feels like things are getting worse not better! I weaned from breast feeding at night at 7months and now fast forward to 10 months and he's having 2 bottles of formula a night!...my fault obviously...why the hell did I start with that?! Lol! It was bad enough that he relies on me and the dummy. Think I just thought if it bought us some sleep it didn't matter, but it hasn't anyway! I could just go cold turkey again and stop milk at night, I've only been doing it for about 10 days to see if it would help?!
Regarding the cot...what to do?...it's still got the side off so I can lean in and settle but like u say...now he's crawling and pulling up the side probably needs to go on. However, I have no idea how that will work as he currently lies holding my hand (cute at 1st now we're over it lol!)

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Figgygal · 26/08/2017 07:51

Interesting reading here When do people think night feeds shouldn't be necessary?

Op My 10 month old has never settled over night without a bottle he's been up twice a night for the last week and so now sneaking in 2 bottles. He's fully weaned eats everything is 91st centile so other than a growth spurt I can't believe he needs 2 feeds overnight.

I'm back to work in 2 weeks and am concerned about how we are going to cope.

cumbrimum · 26/08/2017 09:21

Morning Smile snap! Back to work in about 4 weeks and I have no idea how will I cope either! I'm only managing now as I sneak a nap in when baby does on the days toddler is in nursery...which is closed for summer at the minute! So probably why I'm feeling like I'm not coping well.
2 bottles here last night too..then declines breakfast so I know he should t be having it. I always try to settle first without milk, do you? Never have much luck though and after about half an hour I give up and get a bottle just so we can all get back to sleep.
My DS sleeps in cot next to our bed too so it means me and DH are both getting no sleep! We swop sides of the bed half way through the night so we am hold DSs hand when he wakes...ridiculous I know...we need to tackle it just not sure how without a lot of crying in his own room Sad
Last night- bed 7:30, wake 9:30 (dummy), wake 10:30- milk, wake 01:00 (dummy) wake 03:00- milk, unsettled 4-5:30 then got up Confused

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Chamber587 · 26/08/2017 19:24

I'm having a similar issue with my 7 month baby. He wakes around 12 and 4 and both times would happily have 2 6oz bottles. I've tried getting in more milk during the day but it doesn't make a difference. Somebody said to reduce the bottle amount, so tonight just do 5oz. Can anyone offer advice? I'm currently by myself too as husband is serving overseas so feeling the stress of it all and confused! Is he hungry or is it just habit? But would he have that much milk if it was habit? FTM too so it's all so new to me!! TIA Xx

mimiholls · 26/08/2017 20:41

I night weaned around 9 months. I think if baby is having 3 good meals a day plus milk and there are no health issues you can be fairly confident they dont need food at night. Started by cutting down by oz a night til i was just giving water. She did keep waking for water though as it was just the comfort of the bottle that she liked. So I cut it out completely- offered sippy cup of water which she hated so confident she wasnt thirsty. It took one night- quite a lot of upset and just offering cuddles instead. Next night she had forgotten about the bottle and has slept through since then. It was a lot easier than i thought!

Chamber587 · 26/08/2017 20:59

How long did it take you? How many oz did you start on? X

FATEdestiny · 26/08/2017 21:22

When do people think night feeds shouldn't be necessary?

Before answering I with to apply the caveat that night breastfeeds are more about comfort than calories, and you can't just go denying a baby comfort. Night weaning a breastfed baby is about very different factors to night weaning a bottle fed baby.

That said, I would generally work on the basis that you start weaning a baby onto solids at 6 months, but milk remains important. There would be a gradual change until by 12 months, all of baby's calories come from a solids diet, with milk being one aspect of that diet not the main source of calories.

So as a general rule, I would:

● 0-3 months: expect calories to be needed over 24h

● 3-6 months: calories load to move more calorie intake in the say, less at night. Some night feeds likely, but not as many

● 6-9 months: Early weaning foods being low calories mean milk feeds need to be maintained for the calories. If this isn't managed with daytime milk alongside meals, then you may see an increase in night feeds. But ideally keep all calorie intake in the daytime.

● 9-12 months. Milk intake should now be decreasing to just become one aspect of a healthy diet, not a significant source of calories. If baby has a growth spurt, is hungry and needs extra calories, they should be coming from more food eaten in the daytime not more milk. Baby should be able to eat enough food to not be hungry for 12h overnight, and should also be drinking enough fluids in the daytime to not be thirsty overnight. If they are not, daytime food/drink needs to increase.

● 12m plus - I think if significant calories are being taken as milk, it will hinder the development of a healthy diet of food and drink. Milk is still an important aspect of the diet of a child, but not in a way that means baby doesn't eat normal portions at meal times.

mimiholls · 26/08/2017 21:35

Chamber- started on about 4oz. Just cut down by an oz a night until just water so 4 nights. That was just to give her time to adjust and take on more calories in the day if needs be. We also introduced a comforter which i snuggled to her during last feed before bed and before nap times, which she then had in the cot at night. Seemed to help as she associates it with comfort.

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