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5 year old, really need a new perspective on bedtime!

42 replies

whyismykid · 13/08/2017 21:57

it’s long but i’m desperate - anyone cracked a bedtime nightmare and want to tell me how?

DS is 5.5, he has always been an awful awful sleeper - as a baby he took hours and hours to get to sleep - He would scream and scream and just wouldn't settle. Nothing worked consistently - for the first six months i spent most of each 24 hour period trying to get him to sleep - rocking, feeding to sleep, carrier, buggy, white noise, a gazillion 'magic' sleep aids bought from Amazon late at night (Ewan the sodding waste of space / glowing seahorse / bear with a recording of my own voice !?!?). It was desperate and I was falling apart.

It got a little easier once we started bringing him into our bed because at least there was some sleeping going on and i started to be able to think, but from 1 year old we have tried everything to help him to sleep independently and nothing has worked.

A year of the no cry sleep solution, no improvement. Six months of gradual retreat was pretty good but we couldn't get further away than the top of the stairs, we still had to be in sight. after three months (!) of putting him back to bed with no eye contact or speaking i was ready to kill the 3 day Nanny. We’ve tried relaxation CD’s, guided meditation, The Rabbit who wanted to Fall Asleep, massage, lavender baths, whale song. We have a consistent routine, bath, stories, kisses, bedtime. He gets lots of love during the day and he is able to play by himself to a degree but it all changes at night and he fights sleep so violently, screaming for us to sit with him, out of his room, and i’ve run out of ways to help him. We make sure he has time of physical activity each day. Starting school - which loads of people promised would sort him out has not, and he’s about to his second year. He’s not afraid of Monsters or Ghosts, he just doesn’t want to fall / can’t asleep by himself.

Whilst he now at 5.5 he generally sleeps through the night, bedtime is an awful screaming headache from start of bath 6:30pm to when he finally falls asleep, usually between 9;30pm and 10:30pm. He definitely needs less sleep than other children, but he quickly racks up a deficit and because he can’t nap, it just affects his behaviour - he is becoming increasingly aggressive and it’s really upsetting. For three months this year DH and I took it in turns to sit with him every night until he fell asleep and he was probably asleep an hour earlier on average - behaviour improved, smiles all round - but that’s still 1 - 2 hours each night after bedtime- and I find it hard to be affectionate to him at this time as i’m so frustrated that I can’t get on with what i need to do ( exciting stuff like cleaning / washing / occasionally having a conversation with DH etc). We are currently trying a star chart - he has got 2 stars in three weeks for falling asleep by himself by 9pm - the reward is something he really wants.

What else can I do to help him sleep? Should we just sit with him every night and hope that eventually he will be able to do it by himself? We need a new angle or perspective on this, I love him so much but it’s starting to wear down our relationship and our family.

(Probably not relevant but DD is very different, but calmer, happier to be alone, she just tells us when she has had enough stories and chats to her toys in her own room until she falls asleep)

OP posts:
grasspigeons · 14/08/2017 07:47

I think your new plan sounds great - I was going to suggest that just sitting with him till he falls asleep as that's what he wants would give yo all a break. We had similar with my son, I just changed my mindset and viewed sitting with him as creating warm memories of a safe place as that was the childhood I wanted for him (as opposed to stopping me getting on and a nuisance ) after 6 months he didn't need it any more.

AristonAndOn · 14/08/2017 07:50

That sounds so frustrating for everyone. I understand a bit, I have a 5.5yo too and she was similar as a baby, from the minute she was born she screamed and screamed. After a year and cosleeping things got better. She also does not need as much sleep as all her friends. She is asleep by 8.30am and awake by 6am at the latest. My friends children are all in bed by 7.30 until 7am, not jealous at all 🙄 We start bath at 7.30, then book and in bed by 8ish. She only falls asleep with me next to her, but she falls asleep very quickly so that does not impact on my night like it does for you. So anyway, I second trying a later bedtime and keeping it quite time, good luck.

GrabbyMcGrabby · 14/08/2017 07:53

OP, what time does he wake up? Have had similar problems, but Dc was getting enough sleep 9pm-8am, so solution (partial success) was getting them up earlier. The problem for me is/was breaking my own tiredness cycle. It is incredibly wearing when so much of your grown up time (for doing housework and maybe conversing with DP) is eaten into.

Have been meaning to try out books with CD. My DC claims to be scared when left on own so may rig up baby monitor again to counter that.

DC really fights sleep. Thankfully guided meditation work a treat but have to be used at the right time. A lot of people have suggested more exercise etc but I have found that just adds to the general level of stimulation nd they just keep on going...!

Good luck. Will be interested to hear how you do as we've by no means cracked it.

NataliaOsipova · 14/08/2017 07:55

From what you've said, I'd say just make 9pm his bedtime. My DD never needed much sleep. She'd sleep very deeply and very well, but she'd never sleep for more than 10'hours. So 9-7 was a pattern that suited her really well. There's a real obsession with 7pm bedtimes here that just doesn't exist elsewhere. Kids are different. I think following his lead and just putting him down later might make life less stressful for all of you.

TheWeeWitch · 14/08/2017 08:12

Agree with lager bedtime. My DS1 has always fought sleep if put down too early. We do bath at 7:30 and play in his room then a story with lights out at 8:30. Then he has an audiobook that he listens to on his own in the dark - he fall asleep within about 20min of the story every night.

Another thing to try - my OH and disagreed about this for ages but it really works if DS is not settling - a big hyper tickle fight sometimes works wonders for zapping the last of his energy! OH is obviously the best at this - he tickles and tickles until DS is laughing and wiggling hysterically then he seems to have a big "sigh" and a yawn and settle right down for sleep. It's like some kind of tension release.

TheWeeWitch · 14/08/2017 08:34

LAGER might well help him to sleep, but I obviously meant LATER!

MillieMoodle · 14/08/2017 08:39

Lager bedtime Grin

whyismykid · 14/08/2017 10:58

Lager for me (or a large glass of wine!) is quite helpful!

Grass pigeon- I got a bit teary reading your your comment, that is the kind of childhood I want for him!

7am wake up so maybe I just need a mantra that 9-7 is enough sleep - and I think it would be, it's just the 10-7 at the moment that isn't quite enough!

Audio books are great but if the story is exciting enough to keep him in bed then it's too exciting to help him to sleep. I think audiobooks whilst he plays downstairs then his room can be an oasis of zen like calm (?!?)

We are at softplay 😫at the moment and then a bike ride this afternoon and I'm feeling positive and ready for a new era of bedtimes - thanks mumsnetters!

OP posts:
Lweji · 14/08/2017 13:46

Another thing to try - my OH and disagreed about this for ages but it really works if DS is not settling - a big hyper tickle fight sometimes works wonders for zapping the last of his energy! OH is obviously the best at this - he tickles and tickles until DS is laughing and wiggling hysterically then he seems to have a big "sigh" and a yawn and settle right down for sleep. It's like some kind of tension release.

I suggested something similar earlier.
Not many people believe it, but it does work. Smile

catkind · 14/08/2017 13:48

Fingers crossed for a good night.

MillieMoodle · 14/08/2017 20:50

How is it going tonight OP?

NataliaOsipova · 14/08/2017 21:08

Another thing I'd add is that, while losing most of your evening is hard when they're very small, having a child who'll happily stay up until past 9pm makes life a lot easier when they get just a bit older. You can go out to dinner as a family at a nearly civilised time rather than having to bolt down food before 6. You can go to friends and not start worrying about being home for bedtime when it gets to 4pm. The other day we did a later opening museum then went for an early supper - back home for just after 9, but no problem. I think life becomes more flexible when they stay up later. Like you, though, I tore out my hair at the time.....!

GrabbyMcGrabby · 15/08/2017 07:15

I like your thinking there Natalia. Wink

OP, was just thinking, if your DS is on hols then things may be more difficult. My LO is still asleep, having, almost for the first time ever, fallen asleep on the sofa at 6pm. That was due to an all day/ all night party on Sunday and a 5am start on Monday morning with an activity camp after lunch for 3 hours. Still asleep now so that's well over 13 hours! Very unusual and a real treat! However, some nights this holiday they've barely had 8 hours!

Crumbs1 · 15/08/2017 07:22

But if you're having nightly battles the memories aren't going to be good. He's being manipulative and is being taught he can't settle himself. He's, in effect, being robbed of increasing independence. He's not a baby anymore. Agree lots of exercise during day but then no screens before bed, a firm "It's bedtime now" and turn his light off. Back to bed with no attention every single time. No anger, no smiles, no chat just an expectation of him staying in his room quietly.

Looneytune253 · 15/08/2017 07:28

Have you tried just quietly leading him back to bed every single time? Like no conversation at all. Explain it to him beforehand but just be super consistent. I can see you've tried a similar approach before but he's older now and should understand? We got into a habit of sitting in the room with my eldest and we moved a foot away every night until we were sitting just outside the door. Took a little while but it worked.

DearTeddyRobinson · 15/08/2017 07:31

How did it go OP? I am very late to comment but was just going to agree with previous posters, my 4.5 year old is not asleep till 8pm most nights. This may change once he starts school though I suppose. We do tons of fresh air, exercise etc, he's just not ready to sleep till then. He hasn't napped since he was 2, apart from a few times in the car. Once he's asleep, that's usually it though.
Good luck!!

UniversallyUnchallenged · 15/08/2017 07:49

Listening to a 'podcast'? Later bedtime, routine as you have, bedtime story then podcast, with his eyes closed, in a dark room. We have used them, before he could read. Quiet so he has to be really still to hear them.

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