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How to handle the transition to 2 naps?

11 replies

TheSleeperandTheSpindle · 12/08/2017 10:26

DS is 9.5mths and for the last few weeks has been shifting himself into a 2 nap routine.

We've never followed any routine with him, we just fed him and let him sleep whenever he needed, so this is something he has naturally started to do. The problem is he sometimes seems too tired in the afternoon but won't have a 3rd nap! This means bedtime has crept forwards and so wake ups have been earlier and earlier Confused

What's the best way to handle this? Do we just plough on through a few overtired weeks until he adjusts or change things?

This is what happened yesterday and seems to be a 'typical' day for us.

7am 6oz milk
8am porridge made with 2oz milk and fruit.
9.10-10.30 nap
10.30 water and snack of rice cake
11am milk 5oz
12.15 ham and mushroom omelette, kiwi and greek yoghurt.
1.30-2.45pm nap
3pm milk 5oz and a banana

4.30-5 went for a walk because DS looked tired again but wouldn't drop off. Put parasol up so he wasn't distracted but still nothing.

5.15pm pasta with a tomato and mozzarella sauce. Peach slices and greek yoghurt.

6pm started rubbing his eyes and looking really tired. DH suggested putting him down for a nap but I said DS wouldn't treat it as a nap and would probably wake around 4am Hmm

7pm milk 6oz and bed. By this time he was very tired and so we had to resettle a few times. He then woke at 3am for milk (would really love to crack this with night weaning soon!) and the woke at 5am! Managed to get him back to a (disturbed) sleep until 7.15ish.

He then went down at 9.30am today and is still down so far.

We have the odd day of 3 nap days if he wakes for the day between 5-6am but other than that he just resists a late afternoon nap.

Any advice would be great because at the moment I'm worried that DS is becoming more and more tired with no idea how to sort it out Blush

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FATEdestiny · 12/08/2017 11:48

If you are having a 3 nap day, you need to decide that before the first nap. Because you would need to wake baby earlier from the 1st nap, put down earlier for the 2nd nap and wake again from the 2nd nap to allow for a decent awake time tgrough to 3rd nap and another decent awake time until bedtime.

The way I did the transition from 3-nap days to 2-nap days was by gradual change, rather than cliff edge.

So I would keep the default as 3-nap day but I'd if I'd had two previously good days (in terms of night sleep, wake up time and daytime napping) then i would go for a single 2-nap day.

Then I'd if the 2-nap day went well (in terms of night sleep, wake up time and daytime napping) then I'd try another 2-nap day. But if one of the 2-nap days went not so well (poor night sleep, woke early, not napped well) then I'd return to 3-nap days until I'd had another two consecutive good days, and try again for a 2-nap day.

From your typical routine from yesterday, I would suggest that a 2-nap day wants naps starting 9.30am-10am (woken by 11am if not already awake) and 1.30-2pm (woken by 4pm if not awake). Then aiming for an 8pm sleep time and 7am wake up.

If baby has not had a good night, woke early or napped badly the previous day, I'd try for something like 1st nap starting 2h after waking and woken at 9.30am, 2nd nap: 12- 1pm (woken after an hour), 3rd nap: 3.30pm-4.30pm (woken after an hour). This also aims for an 8pm sleep.

It's all flexible, my timings are just ideas. It depends how exhausted baby is and how much sleep is needed.

TheSleeperandTheSpindle · 12/08/2017 13:11

That makes so much sense, thanks! I think I ended up trying to make nap 1 & 2 as long as possible in case DS didn't want a 3rd nap without realising that I was basically removing the option of a 3rd nap by not leaving enough time Blush

Have you got any advice on night weaning please? I've avoided it because where DS's sleep has been up in the air I've tried to get him back to sleep as quickly as possible but I go back to work at the beginning of Sept and would rather not be getting up 1-2 times in the night. DS eats 3 meals very well and gets a lot of high calorie food such as cheese, yoghurt, avocado etc during the day, on top of 4 bottles, but it never seems enough for him. He is having 6-7oz in the night so seems hungry rather than just doing it out of habit.

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FATEdestiny · 12/08/2017 16:47

Are you breast or bottle feeding?

1-2 breastfeeds per night is not unreasonable at 10 months if breastfeeding.

Do you have a different way to settle baby that isnt feeding to sleep? How is baby going from awake to asleep at bedtime?

TheSleeperandTheSpindle · 12/08/2017 20:02

@FATE DS is bottle fed. He doesn't feed to sleep for naps or bedtime. Naps are in his pram and he goes off very easily. I know some people (looks at my HV) probably think he should be having cot naps but it works for us as we can still go out for the day without DS's naps being disturbed and DM and MIL are both able to easily get him to nap using the pram too.

Bedtime is milk downstairs and brush teeth. Carried upstairs fully awake and cuddled until drowsy. He is then put in his cot, he turns onto his tummy and I lay with him for a few mins, sometimes with my hand on his back or sometimes just next to him. His cot is up against our bed with the side off. I know he can link sleep cycles because sometimes he sleeps from 7pm-2am, has a feed and then sleeps again until 6am ish. He often settles with just a handhold or bum pat. It's when he really won't settle that I then feed him.

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FATEdestiny · 13/08/2017 08:42

Given you do have different ways of settling baby, it will just come from being consistent and deciding not to give a bottle at night and only offering alternate comfort instead. Then she'll be more hungry in the day and should make up for the calories. It will be hard work for a week or so, but doable.

TheSleeperandTheSpindle · 13/08/2017 09:15

Thanks again. Can I ask another possibly stupid question?

Will the night weaning just be a case of persevering through the crying and then allowing DS to catch up on sleep the following day? I think that's my problem, I worry about the impact of a disturbed night that I just feed to get him back to sleep quickly. I go back to work in a few weeks so would rather try and night wean him before I go back to work.

Can I just say thank you again for your advice. My HV is useless, none of my friends have children and my DM is so afraid of giving incorrect advice from the 80s Grin I seem to just be making it up as I go along.....

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FATEdestiny · 13/08/2017 10:20

It depends 9n your parenting style and also how effective your alternate settling method (that's not feeding) is.

If you have a well established settling method then it's easier not to feed without any crying. If your settling method is less established (which I'd suggest is the case with yours) then if you don't feed there's going to be crying and upset. It then becomes a case of your parenting style - do you favour the methods not creating any crying and much more gentle (just give baby what is wanted) or methods that are stricter, harsher but quicker (stick to your guns).

It depends on how you want to parent. And there is a huge sliding scale with lots of middle ground between cry it out and feed to sleep. You have to factor in your ability to be consistant, your own need for sleep in the short term and in the long term, if you have support from DP, friends and family if you're knackered... There's loads of factors and variants to consider, I could go on. But what is right for your family might only be right for your family and no-one else.

You need the confidence to look at your sleep situation as a whole and be decisive as to what you are aiming for.

It might be that because you're going back to work that responding and feeding quickly is the best answer, because it gets everyone the most sleep.

It might be that you need the solid block of sleep so decide to 'bite the bullet' and just refuse a feed and move baby into own room at the same time. In-cot comforting, not lifting from the cot and staying consistant through the crying. Short, sharp shock over with quickly if consistant.

Both are as right as each other. And loads of other options as well.

For a little opinion from me (I'm just guessing, you know your baby better than I do), it sounds like you came to the dummy too late and it's not really bonded with as a reliable sleep trigger. That's why feeding to sleep is working, baby associates feeding with the "best" comfort, dummy is second best.

The patting, shushing and whatnot are good for when baby needs a bit extra comfort and reassurance from you, but again they're not really cutting it when the need for comfirt is highest - only a feed will do then.

I say this not to rub your nose in the lack of dummy use in early months to establish it as main comfort, but to suggest that waiting until 12 months ish might be better. Closer to 12m is when comforter objects come into their own.

You've probably seen toddlers with their comforter blankie or special teddy, it's more of a thing for older babies. So I would say at 9/10 months then not feeding is likely to replace the comfort of milk with no adequate alternate, it sounds like dummy isnt really cutting it. Whereas if you keep feeding for comfort, but every time you feed or comfort baby make sure you use the comforter simultantiously to establish that association. Then give it until 12 months amd nope to establish the comforter object as an adequate alternate to feeding for comfort.

There's no guarantee, some children don't take to a comforter. But it's what I'd do if I was in your position. Just make feeding in the night as quick, easy and effective as possible to get us all the most sleep. And then bank on in establishing a comforter ready for after 12 months ish.

(Then if I had another child, establish dummy in-cot settling instead of feeding to sleep from birth - but that's just me).

TheSleeperandTheSpindle · 13/08/2017 13:17

Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed reply.

DS has had a dummy since he was about 3 weeks so it's pretty established and he has it for all naps and bedtimes. It works a treat (or at least it used to!) if he did wake in the night - dummy back in and a bum pat was enough to send him off. He also has a muslin comforter but I know he probably won't be properly attached to that for a while yet.

That's why I think he is genuinely hungry. He dummy settles him for a minute until he realises it's not a bottle and then he cries again. Last night he fed at 11pm and then woke at 3.30am for milk again. I tried resettling and he just got more and more cross until the dummy wouldn't even stay in. I gave in and fed him at 5am. He then settled straight away and slept until 7.30am. This makes me think it is hunger not just comfort or being unable to settle.

Thinking about my parenting approach I will avoid crying and stress for DS as much as I can. I'm quite an attachment parent if I need to label myself and have no problems cosleeping. DH is very much of the same mind so I'm not battling against anything, which makes it easier.

I think I read somewhere that 9 month olds should be night weaned and that's stuck in the back of my head. I always feel a bit anxious that I'm doing something wrong with DS as I have no experience to draw from, the same as every FTM!

Your replies have made me really think about why I'm getting so stressed about DS still feeding at night and I think it's the idea of what I think DS should be doing rather than following my instincts. Just need to find a way of feeding him without going downstairs as that will make things easier.....might need to stock up on premade formula.

Sorry for rambling and thanks again. You've made me get back to how I feel about how I parent DS. If he needs a feed or 2 at night still then so be it, it won't last forever Smile

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FATEdestiny · 13/08/2017 20:55

That's why I think he is genuinely hungry

It does sound that way, I agree.

Night feeds like this end up being a vicious cycle. Baby takes in the (needed) calories overnight so doesn't need as many the next day, so take a in fewer the next day and so it continues.

The gradual change would to be calorie load in the day. High calorie (but healthy) foods, bigger portions, more food groups. Maintaining milk feeds for the calories, although you are now of an age when increasing calories should be coming from food rather than milk. Also remember fluids to keep well hydrated.

Then alongside this reduce milk overnight gradually. Either watering down formula to wean off use, offering smaller limited volumes or swapping for water.

I think I read somewhere that 9 month olds should be night weaned

You'll get different opinions, but I agree. In fact I'd have aimed to stop regular night feeds before 6 months.

My personal view in terms of calorie intake is

  • Up to 3 months, calories to be expected over 24 hours
  • 3-6 months, moving most calorie intake to the daytime with more frequent, bigger daytime feeds
  • 6-9 months, irregular, occassional night feeds as milk calories replaced with food calories, so daytime calories can dip as a result.
  • 9-12 months, extra calories come from extra food in the daytime, not extra milk. If child is hungry, child needs more food not night feeds or milk feeds
  • 12+ months, main calorie source is food, not milk.

I would worry that at 9-10 months, that regular night feeds night restrict the development of a normal diet at meal times.

TheSleeperandTheSpindle · 14/08/2017 07:23

Well yesterday I made a conscious effort to really up DS's calories during the day - added in snacks such as hummus or banana after his mid morning and afternoon bottle and loaded him with yoghurt, rice pudding and avocado. He then slept 7pm-11pm, fed (I limited him to 5oz) and then slept until 6.30am!

Hopefully today I can do the same and he should be hungrier because he didn't have the 3am bottle. We've also woken up to a 3rd tooth on the bottom so that might have explained a few things too Smile

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FATEdestiny · 14/08/2017 08:17

Great progress. And the tooth may explain a lot.

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