Early rising 9mo

[BoyMumma]

Hi lovely mummies and daddies, hope you can offer me some advice.

1st time mum to my gorgeous little boy, recently started encountering some sleep issues, the main one being very early rising 5.00-5.30 commonly.

I'll give you a bit of an overview of his sleep routine

Wake 6am (good days)
Nap 1 9.30/10 for 1 hour, I'll then wake him up
Nap 2 2.30, letting him sleep for as long as he wants, usually 1.5 hours
Bedtime, put down at 6.50ish with aim to be asleep by 7pm

He has self settled since around 6 months (we used gradual retreat to teach this) although he has definitely been having separation anxiety recently which has made him more difficult to settle at night. He sleeps in a cot in his own room and has done since 6.5 months

I know they say separation anxiety can cause early rising, was just looking to hear about others experiences, does it pass or do you think we need adjust his routine somehow?

Thanks in advance

He's having 11 hours at night which is pretty good TBH

My 9.5 month old isn't usually asleep for the night until 830-9pm and is always up for 6 even if he wakes in the night

His early morning will largely controlled by what time bedtime is (assuming he is sleeping through?). As pp said, 11hwoujd be an average for this stage and anything in the range of 10h-12h over night sleep would be considered "normal. Therefore a 7pm bedtime will give you a reasonable wake up time of 5am onwards.

I'm In addition I wonder if you son might be over tired in the daytime? His awake times between naps is very long. A good approximation for this stage is 234 (hours between sleeps). I would also suggest that you dont limit naps by waking him unless you have a compelling reason to do so.

If your aim is a 6-7am wake up (?) then you want an 8pm bedtime. I'd also reduce your awake times. Your morning awake time is currently 3.5 to 4h, which is very long. I'd reduce to 3h initially. So a 9am nap and leave to sleep as long as needed. Say he wakes at 10.30am ish, that gives a second nap with a 3h awake time at 1.30pm. From a 3pm ish wake up I would aim for an 8pm bedtime.

Thank you for the replies.
The reason I've been waking him after AM nap is 2 fold, firstly I struggle to get him to go down in the afternoon if he's had a long sleep in the morning, and secondly based a few baby books I've read which say longer nap should be lunchtime/PM.

Yes his awake times are long for his age, I had been increasing them gradually so that his PM nap wasn't too early leaving him overtired by bedtime which was what was happening when he first transitioned to 2 naps. He seemed ok with it but I will try putting it back down again and letting him sleep longer in the morning.

I was aiming for 11 hours of nighttime sleep, and yes he does sleep through, which would be 7-6. Last night we actually put him to bed a bit later, he was asleep by 7.25 and woke at 5.05 which was not even 10 hours .

He was so tired I put him down to nap at 8am and left him to sleep till he woke at 9.30. Hopefully he will still go down this afternoon and have a longer sleep too so he's not awake too long before bedtime.

You think you get the routine cracked and then it all goes out the window again!

Babies routines are always changing.

My ds usually has four naps

Today so far ( after a bad night being up at 12 then 2)

Awake at 6am

Nap 830-1030

Nap at 1230 -

Awake at 215!

Some children are just early risers op, and unfortunately it's not always something you can fix looking at you dd age 9

At such a young age though, it's possibly just a phase which will give way to a lie in phase very soon! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

BoyMumma - establishing a change in body clock will not happen over night. Putting baby to bed half an hour later for a single night is unlikely to make any difference to morning an established wake up time.

To see a change in routine like this you need a good few weeks, maybe a month of consistancy. That may mean bed at 8pm and up at 5am initially, so more daytime sleep will be needed to catch up on missed sleep. But if you consistantly stick with it, thats when you see a difference. Not one night.

I also fully agree with Afreshstartplease that at this age you need to be completely flexible. Some days, after a realky really rubbish nights sleep, baby will need loads more sleep than normal. Restricting daytime sleep and having awake times such that you have no room for this sort of flexibility is a recipe for over tired exhaustion, in my opinion.

Thanks everyone.

FATE yes I wasn't expecting it to miraculously change overnight, it's just sad to see him overtired in the short term while trying to make adjustments. And of course his routine is flexible day to day, there is no way I would keep him up till 9.30/10 when he's been awake since 5. Just gave the timings as a rough guideline of what I would do based on a 6am wake.
I'll give it a go for a few weeks and see what happens.

When working towards a later bedtime would you add back in a 3rd nap if needed? Nap 2 was only 45 mins yesterday so DS was knackered by mid afternoon. Tried to put him down for a 3rd nap but he refused .

Jenny haha yes I think you are right, although I do want to explore all the options before resigning myself to a 5am wake up every day. Does your 9yo still wake up at 5?!

Afreshstart hope you had a better night. How old is your LO?

When working towards a later bedtime would you add back in a 3rd nap if needed?

If it's needed, yes of course. I've got zero tolerance for tired babies though, I can't be doing with the clinginess and grumps. So the moment that starts, it's sleep time regardless of the time or how many naps have happened that day.

Tried to put him down for a 3rd nap but he refused

That is not telling you baby doesn't need an extra nap. He is not making a conscious and considered choice not to sleep. He just cannot get to sleep even though he needs to. This is to do with not having a settling technique established enough to get him to sleep whenever it is needed.

Ds is 9.5 months

Update on yesterday's sleep

Awake at 6am

Nap 830-1030

Nap at 1230 - 2.15

Nap 445-530

Bed at 830. Woke and had to be resettled at 11 and 12

Slept til 7am. That's a pretty good night here.

FATE what would you say is the ideal settling technique? I really thought we had this sorted as he goes off to sleep on his own very well so this makes me feel very sad. Don't all babies have times when they just can't get to sleep even though they need to? I know I have

afresh that sounds like a good night. Hope it didn't take long to settle in the night. Tiredness and unbroken sleep makes me how I coped with a newborn !!

Don't all babies have times when they just can't get to sleep even though they need to? I know I have

I know if I have trouble sleeping, there's an array of different things I do to help me get to sleep. As an adult (without a baby waking) if I cant sleep I'll fetch my eye mask and ear plugs, adjust my clothing to be cooler, have a cool shower if too hot, put socks on if cold, try breathing and relaxation techniques, read for a while....

I don't do all of these things every night. But if I find myself unable to sleep i keep trying different things until I'm asleep. I don't just lie in bed with my eyes closed and wait (as I do every other normal night).

I guess the same is true with baby. Great that you have a method that works usually. In addition you might need a list of things you do in addition if baby isn't sleeping.

I used gradual withdrawal the same as you. So the most natural thing to do would be to cycle backwards through the gradual withdrawal steps you used.

It's not unusual to need to go up.and down the gradual withdrawal steps at regressions, when ill etc. GW give a you a great array of ways to give increasing reassurance and help to sleep, when needed.