4 month old - Late sleeper/Riser

[BabyAndBunny]

Hiya - new to mumsnet posting so apologies if my post is in the wrong place/format etc.

So, my lo really since birth has been a late sleeper and a later riser. He typically is definitely down for the night at 12am and will sleep to 10am the next day - he recently started sleeping through but is having some teething issues and I think the 4 month sleep regression so is up every 2-3 hours to eat (so easy to settle during these times, literally eats and falls asleep, is up for maybe 10mins at a time).

Anyway, I seem to be unable to get him into bed any earlier! Our routine for bed is let him roll around naked for a bit (he loves it), cream him up and massage, into pajamas then eat (ebf) and quiet time in a dark room. Ps I don't want to do bathtime everyday as his skin is quite dry even with being creamed at every nappy change and I've been told constant baths will make it worse as water dries skin out!

If I do this routine before say 11.30 he doesn't care and just stays up. By this I mean he might fidget in bed for a bit and then cry and then I'll comfort him and try to put him down again and he'll cry before he even touches the bed (literally as he feels me starting to lower him) - this dance I-kid-you-not can go on for absolutely ages but I can tell he gets more and more wound up and is just getting harder to put to sleep so eventually give up!

He's a terrible day napper the majority of the time and it's really hard to get him down for any regular naps - especially towards the evening where he goes a bit hyper! He doesn't seem to do ANY sleepy ques and if I try to put him to bed he just looks at me with the same - why am I in this bed I should be up - as a grown adult would if told to have a nap! Typically he'll sleep maybe two hours between 12 and 2 and then maybe another two between 3-5 (these change CONSTANTLY and by no means are regular but a rough median - thus he gets about 14 hours a day which the books say is fine). Also 6pm he will wail if you so much as get near his bed and will thrash and get himself extreamly worked up!

Really my question is - should I try to wake him earlier so I can wind his bedtime back even a bit. I think ideally he would be in bed by say 9 or 10... but even 11 would be amazing at this point!!

Any help on winding back the bedtime would be amazing!!

Hmmm. I'm not an expert but if he's typically awake from 5pm till midnight (have I understood that right?) I'd say he was massively overtired by the time he falls asleep. That's probably why he's hyper over the evening. At this age my DD couldn't cope with more than two hours awake. I know they vary but little and often with naps is the norm at this age I think.

How do you get him to sleep for the naps he does have? Bouncy chair, pram, sling all worked well for us at this age.

We are similar in that our daughter will now go to sleep anywhere between 8.30-10.30, although it used to be 11 (she's now 6 months). I often do wonder how I'm ever going to get her to sleep any earlier! She wakes at about 8am but then about 30-60 mins later has a nap. You could try to start a bedtime routine 15 mins earlier each night, so for about 3 days encourage sleep (however you do this) at 11.45, then 11.30 the following few days etc and see how you go?

X

you could take one step at a time, rather than forcing it up on him just switchoff the light maybe, increasing the time each day, it isn't impossible to get him to sleep early, that will help you as well, also you can make him take a hot water bath and do a little bit of oil massage , the baby will feel relaxed and get a good sleep for the rest of the night.

Typically he'll sleep maybe two hours between 12 and 2 and then maybe another two between 3-5 (these change CONSTANTLY and by no means are regular but a rough median - thus he gets about 14 hours a day which the books say is fine)

I think you are being distracted by late bedtime/morning, when that is not the issue here.

14h as two 2h (ish) naps and 10h sleep and night is fine. It assumes sleeping through though, 10-12h of solid sleep at night.

Your baby isn't doing that though, you mentioned waking every 2-3h through the night. Waking in the night also is fine, but you reading "the books" out of context. As such, exactly as RumpledStiltskin mentioned above, baby is probably very much over tired.

The best way to tackle your baby's sleep is to look at awake time between naps, trying to get more naps in per day. I really wouldn't worry too much about bedtime and morning time, your routines are likely to significantly change anyway.

The only way we managed to alter DD1s sleep pattern was tk cosleep for a week. Might be worth a shot. Especially if you're breastfeeding - something about setting their circadian rhythms but I forget exactly what helpful

Hi. I think if you try to get a routine (ish) going of better day time naps then the nights will fall into place a bit better......x

Spanneroo that's actually a great idea - so go to bed earlyish with baby for a week until they're in that new rhythm? 👍🏻

And OP I really wouldn't worry too much about what books say, all baby's are individual and you can get too hung up on 'rules' x