4.5 month old not napping much, how to encourage good sleep habits?

[NameChange30]

DS is often resistant to daytime naps and it's been particularly bad lately. He's 4.5 months old which I know is prime sleep regression territory. But I don't really know what to do about it.

He is breastfed with the occasional bottle of ebm. We cosleep with him in a Snuzpod on my side of the bed. He usually sleeps pretty well at night, often goes to sleep between 9-9.30pm, wakes up between 6.30-7am, and usually wakes up once, occasionally sleeps through and occasionally wakes up more. Rightly or wrongly, I'm feeding him to sleep - I don't really mind doing it as I don't have to get up, I just scoop him in and out of the Snuzpod and feed him lying down in bed. This will become an issue when he gets too big for the Snuzpod, as the cot bed won't fit in our bedroom, so he'll have to go in his own room But I'm burying my head in the sand trying not to worry about that just yet.

The main issue atm is daytime naps. I can tell he's tired but he fights sleep. I can sometimes feed him to sleep, sometimes rock him to sleep (but DH is better at it than me because I get tired and impatient), sometimes he'll fall asleep in his pushchair, occasionally the car, but all these things can take a long time. If he falls asleep on us, we can sometimes put him down without him waking up, but not always - and not lately. I've never tried putting him down sleepy but awake, to see if he'll fall asleep, and to be honest that seems impossible

At the moment he's napping for about 35-40 minutes max and sometimes he still seems tired when he wakes up, but he's not interested in going back to sleep.

I play white noise at night, no idea if that's helping. We've tried giving him a dummy a few times but he's refused it every time. He occasionally sucks his thumb. But often needs soothing when he stirs - sometimes just putting a hand on his chest does the trick, but only if he's not awake yet, and if he's not crying hard, in which case we have to pick him up and rock him (which may or may not work... and he may or may not stay asleep when we put him down again).

I don't want to try any strict sleep methods but I do want to encourage good sleep habits and help him to eventually be able to fall and stay asleep more independently. I realise that won't happen quickly - especially not during the regression phases - and I'm fine with that. But I feel a bit clueless as to where to start... I've bought the Gentle Sleep Book but ironically haven't had chance to read it properly (because of my baby napping so little!) although i have skim read it.

Also we're going away next week so I guess there's no point trying to establish anything until we get back, although survival tips in the meantime would be appreciated...

Thanks in advance (and sorry for the long post!)

I don't want to try any strict sleep methods but I do want to encourage good sleep habits and help him to eventually be able to fall and stay asleep more independently. I realise that won't happen quickly...

When you say you realise that won't happen quickly, what sort of time scales do you have in mind?

I don't! I'm basically clueless... Until now I've been happy to follow DS's lead but I've realised he probably needs a bit more help as he's fighting sleep and waking up when he's obviously tired. I feel like I need to be doing something but don't know what! Does that make any sense? (I am feeling exhausted without a decent break in the day, although i realise I'm lucky he sleeps pretty well at night.)

If you're happy to feed to sleep and lean towards co sleeping, baby could realistically be into the second year before sleeping independantly. Or longer than that.

If you're striving for baby sleeping independantly but want to do it gently (as in without any crying) you're going to need to embrace the tools of independant sleep - which would be the dummy at this age. Then a comforter toy/blanket towards 12 months old. At a younger age a swaddle is very conducive to independant sleep, but unless you were swaddling under 3 months this is not something you could start now.

Feeding to sleep is not conducive to independant sleep. The key is to help baby go to sleep where they stay asleep. That's why feeding to sleep and cosleeping work together, baby just stays asleep where they go to sleep. If baby's place to sleep is to be independent of you, sleep needs to start from a position of independence. That's why the dummy is a vital tool, it slows for independant comfort sucking.

Use that same premise for daytime sleep - that baby needs to go to sleep where they will stay asleep.

But with daytime sleep you have the added difficulty of there being less pressure on baby to sleep - the body needs to sleep but the need is not as great as at night when natural body rhythms pressure the body to go to sleep.

So you have to counter-act that reduced pressure to sleep, to over come it. It basically means you have to work harder for daytime naps, compared to night sleep.

I usually add in movement to help baby get to slerp in the daytime. Given you want baby to go to sleep where they stay asleep, that means naps in something that moves and going from awake to asleep in there. Pushchair, car seat or my favoured method - the bouncy chair.

Until about 6 months, when naps extend and spread out, I'd keep naos naps in something that allow a for movement, add in a dummy (to replicate feeding to sleep), ensure baby is well fed and has restricted awake time do not over tired. Then just be relentless about it.

My recommendations for gentle route towards independant sleep at this age would be:

In the night

Develop an in-cot way to resettle baby without feeding. Mine would be dummy and sidecar cot cuddles. If baby stores awake, give 5-10 mins to trying to resettle this way first, without picking baby up.

If resettling doesn't work then feed, but always try a resettle first. Feeding to sleep is inevitable in the first 3 months and is part of attachment parenting cosleeping. But by 4 months i wouod be sitting up in bed for a 'proper' feed, like in the daytime.

Pick up, feed both sides. It's inevitable baby will feed to sleep because the aim is to be awake as little as possible at night. But upon finishing the feed, kuft baby to your shoulder and wind a little. The shifting of position delays going into a deep sleep then put baby down in the cot.

Baby is not meant to be in a deep sleep at this point and might fuss. Dummy is key - it allows for the semi-conscious mind to continue comfort sucking. Place your hand on baby's chest to recreate the weight of being held by you. Just stay still, calm and wait. Keep the dummy comfort sucking going and stay physically close, head-to-head so baby can hear/feel you breathing.

At bedtime

Use a similar method to above. Feed in a "we are not going to sleep here" position, cradle hold for example. Lift to shoulder as starting to sleep at the breast. Wind cuddle/sway to calm baby if squirming from movement. Once calm, put in cot/crib.

Expect some squirming when putting down. Dummy, firm hand on chest. Lie down next to baby (on your bed). Head close so baby can hear and feel your breath as well as feel your hand. Without dummy this probably wont work. Dummy is pretty essential in my view.

If baby doesn't settle, try some gentle patting, stroke cheek, tap dummy. If the unsettledness becomes full-on waking up, lift baby, put back to breast and start again.

Daytime naps

Firstly and most importantly, limit awake time. The time between 2 sleeps shouldn't be more than 90 minutes. This is all day long, so your day will consist of blocks of time with 60-90m awake them 30-45m asleep - repeated over and over again from 7am to 7pm (ish).

These are when lying down breastfeeds and leaving baby there to sleep is useful. Dont try to move baby once asleep. As mentioned earlier, extra help is usually needed for daytime naps.

If you don't want to cosleep for the nap, bouncy chair would be my method of choice until 6 months old. With the activity arch removed, so it's just the chair.

Make sure baby isn't hungry and is winded. Into bouncer awake (awake! ). Position bouncer in front of the sofa at your feet. Have a cuppa and the tv remote control to hand. Draw curtains and turn volume down on tv if you think it will help.

Dummy in. Feet on the metal z-frame of bouncer and start bouncing with your feet. Gentle but rhythmic. You don't need to watch baby, that may well create too much stimulation for baby.

Just watch the tv, keep the bouncing going, reinsert dummy as needed, drink your and be utterly relentless about it. Assuming you've not had a massive awake time (which would make baby over tired and need extra help to sleep) just trust you know best and... Keep. On. Going. Just keep going until asleep.

Keep awake time to 60-90m between naps. Expect short naps of 30-45 mins.

Wow, didn't realise how much of an essay I wrote. Sorry

No need to apologise at all! I really appreciate you taking the time to give such detailed advice

It all makes a lot of sense. The only thing is that you say a dummy is essential - and it sounds it based on what you describe - but DS has been refusing a dummy. We could keep trying, but what if he keeps refusing it? If he learned to suck his thumb would that have the same effect?

Based on what you've said about daytime naps, I think his awake times are too long and he gets overtired. He's always awake for more than 90 minutes. I've been waiting for sleep cues and maybe I've been putting off trying to get him to nap because it can be really hard work I will start trying to get him to sleep after 90 minutes awake and see what happens.

Thanks for the bouncy chair suggestion, that sounds great (sitting in front of the TV while I bounce him to sleep wouldn't be too much hard work! ) so I'll give it a go. Not sure it'll work without a dummy though.

I think teething might have been hindering his naps in the last few weeks, because he fusses at the breast and won't feed, so I think he's not full enough to sleep. It's only when I manage to calm him down enough to feed properly that he'll sleep. But putting him down is still an issue.

People do this kind of thing without a dummy. But you need realistic expectations about it. The comfort sucking adds in an extra layer of help to get baby to sleep quickly and easily, most of the other methods are either more parent led (so less independant) like feeding, cuddling, rocking to sleep. Or they are more effective in an older baby - comforters objects and thumb sucking are more effective from 9-12m, so it means accepting more parent-led methods until then.

You can certainly give the thumb a go. The issue is that it's physically small (compared to the size of a teat) so harder for baby to form a vaccume to suck. It could end up with sucking in loads of air, giving wind. Or not really sucking, just chewing and dribbling which is less satisfying.

I think sucking thumbs/fingers/hands as a comforter is more a think for the older baby. Younger ones this age explore everything with their mouth, including when they discover they have hands. Sucking hands is just normal development, it's not actually a sign it's a comfort mechanism. They don't have such fine control over the muscles in their own body yet to have that level of hand-eye coordination.

Much like the dummy, you'll need to help baby with that lack of hand-eye until it develops - say about 8 months old (ish).

I would persevere with the dummy in doing this. But if you think the thumb will work as well persevere with that instead. Kerphelping Baby put it in, keep it in, not pull it out, keep it there until in a deep sleep etc.

My youngest wasn't a natural dumny sucker. It took some serious persistence until she finally "got it". But then I knew the value of the dummy for independant slerp so basically was prepared to keep going until she accepted the dummy, however long it took.

I was persistant with encouraging dummy use all day, every day, at every opportunity for about 7 weeks until she "got it". So when you say he "refuses dummy", it depends how hard you've tried, they don't all take to it immediately. Having said that, 4-5 months is late to introduce a dummy and you may have missed the boat completely.

FATE
Will you marry me?!
Seriously... I just managed to get DS to sleep in his bouncy chair. Seems so obvious now but I hadn't thought of it before. Bouncing him is SO much easier than breaking my back walking around with him in my arms, or marching around in the pushchair. Thank you thank you thank you!

As for the dummy. Admittedly we only tried a couple of times before, he spat it out and cried so we didn't persevere. We hadn't grasped how useful it would be. I tried again just now (before bouncing him to sleep) and he chewed it (predictably!) but did also suck it a bit, so we might get there if we persevere. Anyway, he fell asleep without it, thank goodness!

Yey! Great news. Just keep doing more of the same.

Over time you can reduce the verocity of the bouncing and how long you bounce for. But don't stress that yet, make napping as easy as possible. It's much easier to teach baby the skills of independant sleep when neither of you are exhausted - so more sleep and less awake time is always better.

Hmmm. Bouncer chair didn't work the second time - I bounced him for about 30 minutes but he wasn't getting sleepy at all. He'd been awake for 90 minutes when I started (2 hours when I gave up) but given that he's often awake for much longer I wonder if he does just need longer awake periods than the average baby. He is very alert and curious. Anyway, DH has taken him out in the pushchair so we'll see if that works.

It's still good going for the first day trying. It's going to take some time to adjust so don't worry.

Awake time will be dependant on the length of previous naps. A very long nap, for example, will lengthen awake time. A series of short naps will shorten awake time. It's a big balancing act getting the timing right. I would err on the side of less awake time, not more though. Getting more sleep is never a bad thing.

Thanks. I'll keep trying. He has been awake for 3 hours now (after a 30 minute nap)...

So this is what happened today:

Woke up at 7.45am
Awake for 3h10
Fell asleep in my arms (after feeding) at 11ish but woke up 10 mins later when I tried to put him down, rocked him back to sleep and he slept for another 20 minutes
Awake for 3h10 (during this time I took him to baby yoga and he was clearly very tired halfway through so I stopped participating and tried rocking him to sleep, didn't work, and he didn't fall asleep in the car home either)
Fell asleep in the bouncy chair at 2.40pm (result!) and woke up 30 minutes later
Awake for 3h30 (during this time tried bouncy chair for ages, didn't work)
Fell asleep in my arms (after feeding) at 6.45pm and I had to put him down as I was starving and wanted dinner - he woke up less than 10 minutes later
Awake for 2 hours
Fell asleep at 8.55pm (fed to sleep in bed)

So between 7.45am and 9pm he's only had about 1h10 of sleep, despite my best efforts. That's not bloody normal is it?!

Looks to me like you are in an over tired cycle.

A baby who is over tired finds getting to sleep more difficult. Then once asleep, the sleep is lighter and more fretful, so waking very easily. Therefore poor sleep becomes worse sleep.and it spirals.

Whereas a baby getting plentiful slerp will find going to sleep easier, so is quicker to go to sleep. Then sleeps more deeply so wakes less frequently. The saying goes "sleep breeds sleep" - the more sleep baby has, the better quality that sleep is.

It takes some really focused attention to get out of an over tired cycle, but it's doable. From the routine you said today, I'd suggest your baby was over-tired by 10.30am, could have been asleep an hour earlier, and then it just spiralled from there.

Today has been a nightmare so far
DS woke up at 6.15am
I stayed in bed and DH looked after him for a bit then tried to get him to sleep in his bouncy chair, didn't work so he brought him to me
Fed him in bed and he fell asleep at 8.20am (so just over 2 hours awake time) then woke up at 9.30am (so 1h10 asleep)
He hasn't had a nap since then!!! He has been awake for 4h20 and counting. I started bouncing him around 11am and did it for about 30 mins but he wasn't getting sleepy and was really crying. Fed him and he didn't fall asleep. Had lunch. Bounced him again. Still not working. It's also really hard because he is crying, when it's the low-level tired whinging I just ignore but it turns into distressed crying and I'm trying to comfort him without picking him up but it's really hard.
I'm also getting frustrated and angry with him and it's horrible

Sorry for the moany post earlier - it was a low point but things have been a bit better since then. I decided to take a break from the bouncer and just focus on getting him to sleep before he gets overtired. Once we're doing better with that I'll try the bouncer chair again. I'm not sure about the 90 minute thing but I am going to be extra careful to look out for sleep cues and try and help him to sleep as soon as I notice them.

At 4.10 he had a 30 minute nap in his pushchair, then was awake from 4.40 to 5.30 (just 50 minutes) when I rocked him to sleep in my arms... I decided to keep him there and just relax rather than trying to put him down and get frustrated when he inevitably woke up. He slept for 35 minutes. Then he was awake for just over 2 hours before going to sleep for the night at 8.20pm - a whole hour earlier than usual! I'm really pleased about that as I've been wanting to make his bedtime a bit earlier. If I can consistently get him to bed around 8-8.30, that would be a definite improvement. And maybe it will help the daytime naps too if he's getting a bit more sleep at night? I don't know.

I've found this thread helpful. Thank you for the detailed explanations Fate! Also made me feel better about decision to use a dummy after PIL were quite disapproving.

I hope it's helpful penguinpurple

Dummies are ACE!

I'm in the same boat as you namechange30 my DD will not sleep in the day. She's breastfed and in a next to be bedside sleeper. I do exactly what you do. She didn't take to the dummy so I didn't bother. She's 5 months next week and only sleeps for about 30mins to an hour in the day. I've been pushing her bedtime further forward. It was bath and then feed lying down in my bed at 5pm but now brought it forward to 4pm as last Thursday she was really tired. That day she slept so peacefully (no thrashing) till 10pm, fed for an hour then back to sleep till 5am! Was completely shocked as she normally wakes every 2 hours.

I'm going to take fates advice about the darkroom in the day and try and nap 60mins after every awake time and just persist with it.

Any advice about the thrashing of the head? Please

Can I ask why, if your babies are sleeping really well all night (a lot at this age are waking multiple times, including those who are good day nappers) that you need them to nap more in the day? Are you not risking them sleeping less at night? (Interested as I have a 8 week old)

mrstwiddles I don't think my baby is sleeping at all well. She doesn't sleep much in the day then wakes every 2 hours for a feed. The Thursday incident is a complete fluke where she slept for 5/6 hours straight before and after feeding.

I'm unsure if the no napping directly affects the temperamental night sleep as she seems to never get into a proper deep sleep due to the thrashing around a lot?

Just looking for advice really.

Sorry - it was the OP baby that she described as good sleeper (in my book with a DC who didn't sleep that well til over a year) I was referring too...

He usually sleeps pretty well at night, often goes to sleep between 9-9.30pm, wakes up between 6.30-7am, and usually wakes up once, occasionally sleeps through and occasionally wakes up more.

Any advice about the thrashing of the head?

I know a fair few babies that have thrashed their head side to side, including one of mine. I think it's a tired sign, just on the high end of the scale. Akin to yawning, eye rubbing and so on. Head thrashing means "I'm really, really tired, help me get to sleep now, right now".

MrsTwiddles - it's often the case that the more a baby sleeps, the better their sleep is.