2 and 4 year old bedtime hell

[Lovelymonkeyninetynine]

Please help me, I'm at the end of my tether.

2 year old ds and 4 year old dd have been sharing a room so I can put them to bed together. This has resulted in sometimes nearly 2 hours of messing around while I sit in the room. If I leave they scream and run at the door etc.
I've separated them tonight which has worked better for the older one but youngest has taken 2.5 hrs to get to sleep. He only had a nap today of 40 mins. Both were very tired.
I have to do bedtimes in my own mostly. I feel like I've done everything wrong and neither can fall asleep on their own. I'm exhausted and end up shouting and being such an awful mum, it ruins our days together

You'be not done anything wrong! My two are the same age and often play up at bedtime. Do they have to sleep in the same room? If my 2 ever have to share a room (e.g. On holiday) we still put them to bed separately and carry one through when asleep, as otherwise they would go totally crazy!

This is what works for us when one of us has to do bedtime alone:

• bath together, then out and pjs on
• stories together in DS's room with milk and sandwich
• clean teeth
• DS (4)gets into bed and gets to listen to a CBeebies radio story whilst he nods off
• whilst DS is listening to the story take Dd into her room. Quick cuddle on the chair then put her in the cot with lullabies on and leave the room

Normally DS falls asleep during the first story, by sometimes comes out and asks for another one or a quick cuddle. If there's a day when I think he is really not tired then I will occasionally let him lie in my bed and watch CBeebies whilst I sort Dd.

If you can separate them for a few nights that may help sort out any individual bedtime issues? We had to do controlled crying a few months ago with Dd - prior to that we were having to cuddle her for over an hour to go to sleep!

Good luck, I hope you find a system that works for you

I have a 3yo and a 4yo who share a room, and often do bedtime alone, so have felt your pain!

Could your 2yo be ready to drop the nap, or move it earlier? Some kids are ready early. My DD dropped her nap literally the day she turned 2 (her choice, not mine!) Occasionally she will pass out on a car trip, but if she naps for even 20 minutes after midday, it will mess with her bedtime.

If you're regularly battling for 2 hours after lights out, they're either not really tired or are overtired. What time do they get up/go to bed?

Have you got the option of seperate rooms? Because that would be the best option.

At aged 2 and 4, neither should need you in the room as they go to sleep. They may like to leave their door open and have you upstairs, but that should be all.

Yes I've got the option of separate rooms. In a rage tonight I separated them (I know, not the best way to sort this at all.)
It's all become a vicious circle where they start misbehaving and I start shouting etc. I try to be a gentle parent a lot of the time but lose my cool about this. We have a lot of other stressful things going on at the moment.
I know they shouldn't need me to fall asleep, how do I get out of the habit? Just keep returning them? I think my inconsistency is at the heart of it as I often end up staying with them to sleep if they become hysterical (most often the 2 year old.)

I know they shouldn't need me to fall asleep, how do I get out of the habit? Just keep returning them? I think my inconsistency is at the heart of it as I often end up staying with them to sleep if they become hysterical (most often the 2 year old.)

Yes, just keep returning them. It's called Rapid Return.

If you are on your own it's going to be really hard work to do this with both simultaneously. If you can't get help, if it was me I'd sleep train the 4 year okd first. Then only work on the 2 year old once 4 year old is sleeping independantly.

Given your 2yo has naps, encourage some super long or late afternoon naps so that she can cope with a later bedtime. Then from 7pm park 2yo in front of a screen and deal with 4 year old. Rapid Return with utter consistancy.

A week of consistant and firm boundaries with 4yo should sort it. Then do the same with 2yo.

And thank you for the help so far!!
In reply I think the little one is often overtired. They both wake up at about 6:30/7. The eldest is very tired by bedtime so think she will settle ok once used to me not being there.
The youngest has always been a bad sleeper, and my bad habits have made everything worse. I'm kicking myself as my first was a dream at going to sleep and staying in bed for the first 3 years!

Thanks Fate that is a great idea. Will do as you suggest. It's so bloody helpful to have advice when you're in the fog of it feeling crap. X