dd 8 mo, refusing to nap, becoming unbearable screaming grizzly monster. Please help!

[fizzbuzz]

Dd has always been difficult daytime napper, but does need to nap in day! Have tried all usual stuff, lullabies, wind down etc.

She used to be OK, but just lately is impossible. Will sleep for about 3/4 hour in morning and THAT IS IT!.

When trying to get her to sleep in afternoons, she starts screaming on way up stairs. This is intensified when she is put in her cot. She then carries on and on screaming until she becomes hysterical. Have tried putting her in bed with me, on sofa, rocking her (creates even more screaming), patting, stroking and nothing works or soothes her. She fights cuddles, will not sleep in pram, and grizzles in car when stuck in traffic.

She gets tireder and tireder as day goes on, and turns into screaming monster. Have tried every baby guru, and nothing works....am beginning to look forward to going back to work! Any advice anyone?!

She always settles for morning nap happily enough

How old is she? Do you think she might be ready to change to a single nap after lunch?

Ooops, sorry, age was in the title. That is a bit young to change the nap pattern, but if she isn't sleeping in the afternoon anyway then you could try for a week or so and see if one longer nap helps.

Hmm that's an idea....

2 weeks ago, she had a really long morning nap (about 2 hours), and the whole thing started then. She has done a couple of long naps in morning since then, and that seems to be the trigger, looking back.

Should I wake her after about 1/2 an hour in morning?

She has always been a totally random and chaotic napper, despite the fact that I LOVE routines, she has fiercly resisted it

How long does she have between naps? Perhaps you need to experiment with the amount of time between naps. My DS is 10months and always been a 30 min napper and I tried EVERYTHING to change it, I failed, I'm happier accepting that's just the way he is. I used to have problems like yours putting him down until I realised I was trying to put him down too soon. At 8 months we worked on a 2.75hr nap cyle - awake for 2.75 hours, then nap half hour then awake 2.75 etc. This extends as he gets older (is currently 3-3.25 hrs). It's difficult because you hear of others having a "morning/lunch/afternoon" nap but if your baby doesn't conform you need to find something else which works! I hope someone else comes along with further advice, but good luck

Hmmm was leaving it about 2 hours and 1/2 between naps. But I can always tell when she's tired as she puts her arms over her eyes, even when she is sitting up.

After constant screaming yesterday, she finally fell asleep on her stomach next to the cot bars with her arm hanging out of cot, and head pressed against bars, hence more screaming when she woke up.

I am completely at wits ends about what to do with her.

fizzbuzz, i have 8mo ds who is going through the same thing. sleeps fine at night, but during the day....sounds identical to your lo. screams, doesn't like cudddles, etc. i am therefore watching this thread with baited breath and sending you empathetic vibes!!!!

I have never heard of a baby who doesn't like being cuddled until I had dd. Honestly it's like rocking an octopus, squirming, wriggling, all the time.

Ds loved cuddles, AND would crash out anywhere when he was tired. DD has never crashed out anywhere, just gets more and more grizzly. She is like The Princess and The Pea

Everyone said bad daytime sleeping improved at 4 months. Well it hasn't for her!

fizzbuzz

Poor you ds was so like this at that age. He really did not like being cuddled much and would wriggle and arch and almost throw himself out of my arms.

He was pretty good newborn - a bit grizzly but would be happy to lie on the floor/in his cot for 10mins or so - didn't need carrying everywhere etc and woke 1-2 a night for a feed. Then he hit 3 months and contrary to what everyone says he got much worse rather than better.

He too almost never crashed anywhere he just kept going until he was shattered and would eventually work himself up so much that he screamed himself to sleep.

tbh I'm not sure anything I did had much effect but the seemed to get better as he got older. His worst period was aged 3-9 months.

He absolutely HATED being rocked and doesn't like it much to this day (he is 2.4 years old) and will say 'stop that mummy' if I try now.

Does your dd sleep well at night? DS didn't and I always found at that age that he slept easier for his morning nap but only for about 30-40 mins. Then it was downhill from then on. At about 6 months old I started insisting on a nap 1.5-2 hours after he woke from his first nap (always at home as he loved being out but after 1-2 hrs he just got over stimulated/over-tired and he never slept more than 20-30 mins if he was out). He did cry and fought it but over a few weeks he gradually slept longer for his second nap. He usually had a third short nap about 2-3 hours fater the the second thought that was more variable.

He dropped the third nap around 8 months old but kept the two naps for ages until he was about 18/19 months old.

I now think that ds was chronically overtired and that his first nap was easier as he was better rested from his sleep. I made the mistake of leaving it too long before getting him to take a second nap.

It was a pain as I had to be home so much for his naps but it was worth it as when his naps got better he started to sleep much better at night.

Thanks for support. She sleeps well at night and always has (ok apart from last night's screaming at 5.00am)

She isn't particularly demanding, and can play well on her own, but just won't nap.
She sleeps well in morning, but have always been vigilant about time between naps at about 2 hours...not that it makes a difference....she still won't sleep anyway.

Just had meltdown at 3rd nap, which I think she is trying to drop. Of course this means she has been awake for about 5 hours by bedtime.

I think she is just intensely nosey and curious, and this is why she won't kip. Just hope it gets better as you say

BTW, I know I've told you this on another thread, but I love the name!

Its good to know others are having problems like me. My DD is 15wks. From 5 wks she stopped sleeping easily in the daytime. at 8 wks it reached a peak of constant screaming from being over tired. Still struggle daily to get her to sleep at any time despite doing same thing for last 8 wks. i know she is tired so not sure what i'm doing wrong. go out each morning at 9am for morning nap and just experimenting with "controlled crying" at lunchtime nap as otherwise i might go insane! tips greatfully received.

oh & meant to say from 7pm-7am she's an angel. just put her down after feeding and she settles herself more or less immediately.

Phoned health visitor last night after another night of screaming.

She was v helpful, and reckons it's seperation anxiety. So tried controlled crying last night. Went in about 6 times until she calmed down, it was very hard, but seemed to work.

Evey in gumph HV sent, it says controlled crying can only be used on babies 7 months and over. Have you tried swaddling and patting your lo. This worked when dd was being awkward at that age (although so far she has been awkward at every age!)

Completely knackered again.......

Thanks re the name. I've had some negative comments about it but I am rather fond of it.

Is is do difficult isn't it? as ds slept so badly at night I knew he was grizzly and unable to sleep during the day because he was tired. I do think your dd probably does need another daytime nap as well as the morning one even if she is sleeping well at night but it is so difficult to solve.

You probably have a couple of options

• wait for her to out grow this a bit - I think as she gets older she will be able to switch off better and it will probably sort itself out. I couldn't do this as I was just getting too stressed by it but a lot of people do and they and their babies seem to survive just fine

• Or you could try and enforce an afternoon nap which is what I did when ds got to 6/7 months old. Decide what you want to do (eg always put her in a cot/go for a walk in the oram at 12.30pm/1pm or whatever you decide and stick to it for at least a week)

If ds had a mornign nap I would put him in his cot between 12pm and 1pm (depending how tired he seemed). If he had no morning nap I would try to get to 12pm but often he was so grissly it was around 11am when I put him down. As you can see I tried for a routine but it was guided by what he did as well.

I would hold him for a while and try and cuddle him though he often was so wriggly I couldn't. Then I'd put him in the cot and and stay with him for a while while he cried. I then would go out and wait 1 min then go back etc. If I could wait longer I would. Usually though not always he fell asleep eventually

My rules were

-if after an hour of trying he wasn't asleep I would get him up and try again about 20mins - 1 hour later

• if he woke up after less than an hour I did the same again to get him to go back to sleep but

tbh it was hellish for the first week as my whole life was consumed wiht getting him to nap better during the day. After about a week I saw a real improvement (sleeping 1-2 hours every afternoon and 1-2 hours in the mornign too ) and at the same time his night sleep improved (though this could have been coincidence)

As your dd sleeps well at night she may not need much daytime sleep. one of my friends tied this with her dd who slept 12 hours at night but didn't nap and it sort of worked in that her dd did take a nap but it was only ever for 45mins - 1 hour max once or twice a day. Her dd was happy on this though and not particularly grizzly

Ds is very curious to this day and will want to have/try everything he see so I am am sure you are right that your dd is very curious and this probably combines with an inability to switch off easily - hence an inability to sleep. This is probably worse during the day as so much stuff is going on then compared to night time.

I stopped swaddling ds at 4 months because he would get out of the swaddle. I even tried taping it down with duct tape [blush)as it worked so well for him when he was newborn and his sleeping definitely got worse when the swaddle came off.

He just seemed to be able to get out of it even when it was taped down so I stopped.

I LOVE the duct tape concept !

Thanks lazycow, some very helpful advice there. Dd has of course napped perfectly all day.

Wht does she always do the opposite of whatever I post on here?!

She will only sleep in the car if it is moving. She will start grizzling in a traffic jam, as if being stuck in traffic isn't stressful enough