Help - almost 3 year old and 4.30am starts

[mammabear4]

My DD has always been an early riser, around 6ish is normal. Recently though she has been waking up between 4.30 - 5.30 and NOT going back to sleep no matter what we do.

She goes to bed at half 7 with no problem. Any later she would be completely past it - we've tried.

She was breastfed til 14 months, then night time bottle, but hasn't had a bottle for ages now and has never had a dummy.

We have a gro clock AND a gro blind on her window, but she gets up out of her bed and into our room (which at the moment is light at 4.30! Those bloody noisy birds too!)

We're very relaxed about her being in our bed, we coslept until she was just over one and had no problems transitioning into her own space. We've tried letting her get in bed with us, putting her back in her bed with a story... and just about every other trick going. Some have said just ride it out and she will adjust but at the moment it seems like that will never happen 😴

I'm 15 weeks pregnant and utterly drained and DH works long hours so these ridiculously early starts to the day are killing us.

Sorry for the long post but ANY help or advice would be much appreciated.

Thank you x

"New baby"? The child is 3 years old.

OP - The only thing to do at 04:30 is tell her "It's night time and night time is for sleep" and march her back to her bed. Keep doing this and let her see that you are getting increasingly annoyed.

04:30 is not story time. It is certainly not iPad time!

Cut out the afternoon nap. She needs to get her sleep in the night, not party in the early hours and catch up on sleep in the afternoon.

You need to sort out her sleep before the twins arrive. If you wait until after the birth to do this, your DD will feel that it is because of the babies, you prefer them to her, etc.

If she's almost 3, drop the nap. If will be tough keeping her awake the first few days but hopefully she'll adjust and sleep more at night.

I was looking more for ways to help her sleep longer or soothe her back to sleep rather than banish her from being with us or force her into a situation she doesn't want to be in.

If you are looking to do that, the way to get her sleeping longer in the morning is the family bed.

The act of getting up is the problem. The pressure to sleep is usually lower in the early morning, people (adults and children) will often be lighter sleeping in the few hours before waking. This might lead to slight wake and resettles, moving around in bed. For your DD, instead of shuffling and going back to her dozing, she's actually getting up.

Physically getting out of bed is causing her to properly wake up. Then she can't go back to sleep because she's just had 10h sleep and so her body is not giving her any pressure to go to sleep.

If she didn't get up in the first place, if she stayed in bed and just shuffled around instead of getting up, then she'd sleep longer. Two ways to do this would be

• Rapid Return so that she learns that the house rules and expectations are that she stays in bed, so she learns to do as she is told and diesn t try to get up.

Or

• family bed. Have her in bed with you, or at least in your room, so when she wakes she has no need to get up and csn just shuffle and go back to sleep.

I'd do Rapid Return.

I'm a teacher too. I know that rules, boundaries and high expectations are the things that stop the need to shout, argue and tell off. It is authoritarian. That's because I am the adult and know better than a toddler what is best for a 3 year old. Some things are negotiable, some things are not. Getting a healthy amount of sleep is not negotiable.

I feel your pain op. Our dd is 2 and we've been trying to improve 5am/5.20am wake ups for months. Like you have. Lack out blind and gro clock. We tell her still sleep time, take back to her room, she will not stay in her bed and rapid return can go on until 6, minimal interaction etc. She never gives in, on occasion we can't take any more and shut her bedroom door, she sits behind it and screams until 6. We have told her she can play quietly but she just wants us. Maybe because she does 4 full days at nursery but that has been since 11 months. Open to any suggestions

Cut out the nap. Rough for a few days but worth it in the long run. Shes using that nap to catch up on the sleep she lost due to her early start, its a vivious cycle.

I'd be dropping the nap I think.

But if you don't want to do that, I've seen a FB friend recommend putting activities/crafts in their bedroom for early risers.

So if yellow sun hasn't come up yet they can chose to do the stickers/book/colouring (whatever you put out that day) or to go back to sleep. But they must stay in their room and they must stay quiet. Slightly more appealing than just sitting in the dark and better than an iPad (the light from device screens will zap any chance of drifting back off and it's a very rewarding habit to start, she'll look forward to waking up to use it).

Just caught up with this; interesting to read the advice, I do rapid return too and when I said I was firm I don't mean I shout or I'm unkind. It's just not an option to get up and start the day before 7 (6.30 ish ok fine). It takes a little time, but has worked for both of them. They also have a gate on the door although that's also to keep them safe from the stairs.

I think Fate and Anna have explained it really well, if you don't mind your kids getting into bed with you, fine, but you can expect early rising unfortunately. I'm also a teacher, and agree the adult sets the rules and one of my most important rules is that everyone is allowed to sleep. I've explained to my 3 year old about how important it is not to disturb others and she understands now.

Hope it improves for you.

Have had the same issue with our nearly 3 year old and at 7 months pregnant I too was exhausted and combined with the hot weather really struggled with him getting into bed with us. Combination of choosing a favourite book for morning, rapid return and star chart specifically around bedtime has paid dividends for us. we do still hear him singing to himself some morning but happy to live with that!
We included going to bed nicely (always does anyway but wanted to ensure some quick success on chart), going back to bed nicely if wakes during the night/too early, staying quietly in bedroom until 7am (book available to look at) and a bonus big star if he stays in bed all night. We chose little rewards rather than saving up for something big so quick reinforcement and have also focused on an activity baking, painting, extra trip to the library rather than material items (he's got enough stuff!) I know reward charts don't suit everyone but our son did seem to get it. Good luck OP

I'd cut the nap and tire her out more. Swimming park etc something everyday that will make her exhausted before bed.

Give her your phone to play on until you're ready to get up. Don't judge me.

I do think a 7.30 bedtime is early though I appreciate it is the norm. If you let her have another nap in the day she'd probably stay up until 10 or so and then wake at a normal time. Though then people complain that they "don't get an evening" - I think, honestly, you have to choose between evening adult time and a normal getting up time. It's rare and lucky if you get both.

I can totally sympathise! My three year old is also an early riser, often up through the night and then up for the day at 5.30am. once she's up, she's up - won't even go back in her room, let alone back to sleep. She then spends all day fighting sleep and overtired which is impacting on her behaviour, appetite etc. 10 hours a night just obviously isn't enough for her.

OP, I think I'd be reluctant to drop your daughter's nap, if she's going down to sleep in the evening easily enough. In terms of the early wake ups though, I am clueless. I guess just make sure you get to bed earlier yourself, I make sure I'm in bed by 10 😀

I logged in to quietly whisper "iPad" but see others already have. When my son went through that phase he was allowed in bed with me to watch fireman Sam on my iPad for an hour or so, so long as he was quiet. If he started jumping around/singing etc the iPad went of. Often he would fall back to sleep, if not I would get up with him but that extra hour made all the difference. Only problem was I had weird semi waking dreams about ponyprith etc

Oh also, make sure you set the iPad/phone so it is on one of those hour long playlists of kids cartoons and the screen is locked. Otherwise mine seeks out the wierd fake peppa pig videos and similar.

Sympathies OP - my two year old has been waking between 4-5am for a year now.

I think the first sentence she ever spoke was 'want go downstairs'!

My only advice is to pretend you've been up in the night with her and 'only got her back down an hour ago' so it's definitely her dad's turn to get up with her now

Try putting a blackout blind on the outside of the window, (instead of in the recess) or Argos do some reasonably priced thermal/blackout curtains (eyelets so just whizz right through any old pole)

It amazes me even now how little ones become instantly alert at the mere crack of daylight!

Mine used to wake before 5 every morning at a similar age for months. I'd say long term solution is not to reward behaviour you don't want. I'm also a teacher : ). I think DC had been waking up excited to play and watch television.

I tried making the environment as boring as possible. 'Sorry you can't watch television because it's night time.' 'No, I can't play with you because it's night time and I haven't woken up.' 'I know, it's sad, but I can only sit here drinking coffee because it is night time and I shouldn't be awake.' 'That's fine if you are awake but it is night time so no one else is awake.' 'I'm not awake yet, I'm sorry I can't play.' Very monotonous, repetitive, quiet voice and I wouldn't budge. I'm less of the attachment parenting approach than you but like PP I agree that it is not benefiting DD for you to all be sleep deprived. She is pushing boundaries. We also dropped nap just after 3 years old.

Same here OP... can't wait for the dark mornings and nights again!

As someone who gets woken early by the birds and sun, I think it's harsh to expect her to sleeep longer without doing something to block those things.

It's a gradual waking and hard to ignore what is nature's fucking alarm.

We used double blackout blinds and white noise for our dcs. Plus made sure the drop in temp from about 2am wasn't waking them slowly by popping their cover or an extra (but thin) cover on at our bedtime.

She's quite old to be napping and blackout curtains are your friend. So I'd do all I could to prevent the nap, since it's clearly not working for you, and invest in some good thick ones. Argos do them relatively inexpensively. I think ours might have been about £40? Ours were worth every penny, and our toddlers sleep in- it was for me!

If neither of these things work, and you're not willing to actually use any of the other strategies because you think you go against your AP principles, you might just have to put up with it. But honestly, the idea that you're punishing her by not expecting her to get up for the day and tire herself out at 4am is ridiculous. And we're cosleepers!

Move bedtime earlier.

My DD will get a full 12 hours without fail, if she is asleep by 18.45.

If she goes anytime after 19.00, it all goes tits up.

Easyblackout blinds - Velcro to the window frame and don't let in any light at all 😍😍😍

I like the ideals of attachment and gentle parenting, but I've found you have to get the balance right - sometimes you lose sight of the forest for the trees. What I mean is, by adhering so strictly to certain gentle parenting policies, you can actually end up in a situation where you end up having the opposite of a 'gentle' upbringing for your children.

For example, a child waking up at 4.30am, which lets face it, is night time apart from in Summer, is going to make you sleep deprived and miserable, and it's going to make your child tired and irritable - not a great combination. A few days here and there of you being a little bit more strict and firm may not be a pleasant experience for your toddler but setting boundaries in place now will help create a better and happier day-to-day life for the whole family, including your child.

Presumably they'll be going to school next year and getting up at 4.30am they'll be absolutely shattered by lunchtime. You need to take action...

True. Additionally, with twins expected, you may well feel forced to tackle this once they arrive. Much better to sort it before and remove the possibility of it seeming like she's being sent away from you while the babies are allowed to stay.

My advice would be to enjoy spending time with her in the mornings as hopefully she will grow out of it in time and soon she won't want to be in your bed.

My ds was an atrociously bad sleeper, always up by 5am and we tried everything to get him to stay sleeping, stay in bed etc etc etc. Dd is 3 years younger and completely different, she slept through from very young so it wasn't something we were doing to stop him sleeping in, iykwim.

Anyway, he is now 14 and still gets up at 6 but is self sufficient so doesn't need us to entertain him but does bring us a cup of tea in bed and empties the dishwasher every morning!!

Our son was an early waker for over a year (average wake up being 5.30). We eventually stopped it when the clocks changed in spring. We carrried on doing everything an hour later. So dinner was at 5/5.30 and bedtime was at 8. He then started going consistently until 6.15am. Recently we've cut the nap down from 2 to 1 hours and he's sleeping 8-7.30 (sometimes later!!) It's only been a couple of weeks, but it seems to be working. I'm really not sure if it's the change in routine or if sleep has suddenly 'clicked' with him, but I'm enjoying it while it lasts!