deaparate for more sleep!

[philly]

any help would be apprecialted here.Ds is almost 7 months and in every way a joy except for at night.
I am not a "gf" mother but have recently read the book and find that in fact he is anyway in roughly her routine:
wakes approx 6am and has full feed
brekfast at 8am cereal
sleeps approx half past 8 to 9.15 usually in car whilst delivering elder children to school
lunch at 11.30 two courses now
sleep 12.15 to approx 1.45
feed at about 2.15
tea with the other children at 5.30
feed at 6.45 and goes off like a dream at 7pm

midnight and the fun starts,he wakes at least every 3 hours and frequently more often,sometimes he settles after being left to cry but generally will need feeding whereupon he will wake agin after 3 hours max.
He is very big for his age and so part of me wonders whether he is hungry but another big part knows that if I don't break the habit soon things will only get worse.
Dh is frequenly away during the week and I have 2 others both of whom slept through before this,so I am on my knees with tiredness,does anyone have any suggestions.I tried giving him a full feed as soon as he woke a midnight but it did notseem to help,he still woke twice also I feel this would be a bad habit to get into.

Hi Philly, you poor thing I can't really imagine how you are feeling as I only have one dd (11 months) but can sympathise with being on your own as my dh is away alot in the Navy.
I'm certainly no expert but having just read your post, a couple of questions, have you tried leaving ds to see if he will settle back to sleep at 1.45 pm? My dd went through a phase of waking up two or even three times during her lunch-time nap, I tried leaving her to settle and usually then she would then sleep through to 2.30 pm. If your ds is awake from 1.45 pm does he have any other short nap later in the afternoon? It may be that he is going to sleep really well at 7 pm because he is really tired and possibly this may be what is causing the night time wakings? What I mean is that he is going into a really deep sleep straightaway at 7, then when he comes into a light sleep later on he is finding it hard to settle himself back. Just a thought.
What does he eat at tea-time and how much milk does he take at the 6.45 pm feed?
There are probably others who can give you better advice but all I can say is that my dd has slept from 7 - 7 from the age of 15 weeks and I'm happy to pass on any tips that have worked for me.
Let us know how you get on.

I hate to say this, but I think now is the time to cut out the night feeds. IME they just prolonged the night waking, and when I cracked the night feeds my son EVENTUALLY went through. Had to do a little cc but less than 20mins first time, afterwards about 5mins. I do feel for you trying to do this on your own. My dh went into our son when we were stopping feeding so he could have comfort but no food. Can you wait for a time when your dh is home and do it that way. I totally sympathise. My son was a nightmare sleeper but it got better very quickly from the beginning of 8months. Not long to go...

aloha, at what age did you cut out night feeds, how did you go about it, and how did your baby react?
Thanks

philly, i agree with aloha, cut out the nighttime feeds. I bf my son day and night every 2 hours until he was 6 mo. Then I stopped the nighttime feeds cold turkey. It only took a few nights of controlled crying (the ferber book is great for this) before he was sleeping through the night more or less. You will probably have to redo this process after colds and travel. As aloha suggested, it helps to send daddy in to do the comforting, so it is clear that there will be no food, just comfort. It's amazing how quickly our little ones catch on!

Message withdrawn

Thanks for the help and suggestions,I am sure you are right and I need to cut out the night feeds.The added factor is that I have recently weaned him ( very slowly) onto all bottles during the day but the night feeds have carried on being from me ,I did this with my elder ds and as my supply dwindled so did his interest,not so simple this time!

Hi Jasper, I cut out the night feeds at 7 1/2 months (ish) Initially I refused to feed him between midnight and 5am (which lasted a few days) Ididn't go to him, when he woke my dh went in instead (which was rather nice). He gave him his dummy, patted him and then went out (kept it brief). If he was still upset he cuddled him and then when he was calm put him back. Ds reacted really well - he was tired and not really hungry and there was very little crying. Within a few days he was eating more during the day and was much hungrier for his 5am feed. Then I stopped feeding him at all between bed (7pm and 5am) for a few days, and now don't feed him before 5.45 and working towards 6.30am. This way I knew he was never starving. When I stopped feeding between 7pm and 5am we let him cry when he woke. Because he was tired and not hungry he didn't cry much. 20mins the first time and just five minutes afterwards. I'm afraid we just ignored him - I felt going in would just make him more upset and unable to get back to sleep (& he can put his own dummy in now). Now he still stirs in the night, squawks a couple of times and goes back to sleep. we don't go in unless he is cranking up and that is very rare and always because he is sleeping on his dummy! I was surprised how easy it was but think he was ready because of his age. I really don't believe in letting babies cry for ages, but this was very much for his own good - the dark rings under his eyes have disappeared and he is very cheery in the morning. BTW, I think Bloss's suggestion is excellent too and probably works in the same way as mine - gently encouraging them to eat more in the day so they aren't hungry at night.

Just (hopefully) at the end of this process - I began at 6.5mths, and moved DS out of our room at the same time - essential I'd say. Like aloha, began by cutting out the 3am feed, and then stretched the 5am feed to 6am. For the 3am feed, we did the comforting thing, and DS dropped that very quickly. For the midnight feed, I tried just decreasing the time spent feeding (as in Ferber's book), but eventually decided my sleep-impaired brain was not capable of whipping DS off the breast after 6min exactly and then 5min the next night, and eventually dropped it (about 3 days ago!). Since then he has gone through to 5.30-6am. I try not to go in before 6am unless he is really worked up. I still feel tired but somewhat less so than before.

The best bit of Ferber's book IMO was the chart showing when babies went into their light sleep and awakenings - they go into deep sleep between 7pm and midnight, then go into light sleep and have awakenings typically every few hours then supposedly a period of deep sleep until 7am (ha!) At last I had an explanation for why my baby was waking at 1am, 3am, and 5am - unfortunately by feeding I'd just reinforced the pattern and made sure he was actually hungry then.

If your baby drops off quite happily after the feed (that is, the sleep association is not rocking or being held) then I think it is likely to be one of the easier sleep problems to solve - two of my friends with similar-aged babies have also just gone through the same process, with success.

just want to agree with florenceuk about the chart being the best bit about the ferber book as it explained why....And I too moved my son out of our room (and our bed) when we cut out the night feeds.

This is a bit wierd! I did almost exactly the same as Florenceuk, but I haven't read Ferber (or the famous/infamous G.F.!!)but our d.s. is now 8 months and is sleeping through 7 til 5.30/6ish. We also moved baby to his own room - not exactly sure why, but it just seemed the right time. He is much happier and is much more rested. So are we

wow, it must be really hard trying to get through the day with 2 older children when you can't get more than 3 hrs sleep at a time! I remember the feeling from when dd was a newborn but as she was my first it wasn't so bad.

But I didnt' just write to express my sympathies, I actually have a suggestion as well. I have a friend whose little boy was still not sleeping well through the night even at 2 yrs. He was well past needing nightime feeds or bottles of any sort for that matter. He would go to sleep easily but then wake 2 or 3 times a night and take ages to settle back down again. She finally tried a homeopathic remedy called passiflora and he's been sleeping through the night since.

We've also used homeopathic remedies for our own dd since birth for a variety of reasons and have found them to be very useful - you might want to explore this option.

Philly,
Your problem might be that your baby is missing being at the breast and that is why he is up at night. It has nothing to do with hunger - although he is taking bottles during the day he is perhaps missing out on his preferred option of a lovely, cuddly breastfeed. Obviously you have decided to cut breastfeeds out but he hasn,t