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Argh! Feckless mother needs help getting 7 month old to sleep.

8 replies

SpawnChorus · 22/03/2007 21:09

I'm at my wits end...I've been totally crap and lazy about encouraging good sleep habits with DS (7 months). Things just seemed to fall into place with DD (now 2.2) and I assumed/hoped the same thing would happen with DS. But I seem to have sabotaged my chances of getting a good routine in place by keeping him up for cuddles during the evening (until he was about 6 months old) and by consistently BFing him to sleep.

He now really will not settle himself. After our bath/bed-time routine I have to cuddle and BF him to sleep (then veeeeerrrryyy carefully lay him in his cot), and when he wakes up at about 11.30pm he inevitably ends up in our bed.

I've looked at the CC option and have half-heartedly tried it, but I'm just not sure how it can work. DS has perfected long-distance whinging and can go for hours literally. (I don't let him cry for hours when he's really upset btw....I'm talking about no-tears low-level grumbling).

And WTF is this business in CC of going in to settle them without cuddling them or picking them up??!! That is the only way he will stop crying. And generally if I do go in, he ramps the crying up a gear, so the situation is worse...

Please oh please oh please...heeeeeelp meeeee!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
kiskidee · 23/03/2007 10:42

get a sling. learn to wrap and let him sleep on you while you potter about with your 2.2 yr old. a good wrap sling or a mei-tei is the business for babies at this age.

right now www.sybela.com has a sale on wrap slings which are excellent for beginners. I know 30 quid seems a lot but it will be priceless if you take the times (lot less time and stress than trying to teach a sleep routine to a 7 mo old.)

SpawnChorus · 23/03/2007 11:40

Kiskidee - thanks I have a Hugabub sling which I love and use every day. DS always falls asleep in it, which is great, but doesn't really help with getting him to settle himself, as he's basically being cuddled to sleep.

Slings are great though, aren't they?

OP posts:
kiskidee · 23/03/2007 12:30

if you are happy with him sleeping this way, there is no need to 'teach' him anything different. this is how millions of babies live in many parts of the world and it doesn't 'harm' them. would you like to do a bit of reading on why sleep routines seem to be unnecessary for babies?

i know it doesn't help with giving answers to your peers but if you are happy with it, then that is more important.

amysmum247 · 23/03/2007 18:35

I tried cc with my dd a month ago (7 months). I had tried pu/pd...shhh in her cot, cuddling to sleep..everything. I found my presence would just make things worse unless I picked her up. We were doing this 4/5x a night & then at 5am would take her to bed and she would sleep on our chest til a reasonable hour. So 1 night after being up for 2 hrs pu/ps several times cuddling forever we decided to leave her to "cry it out"...it was not nice but after 1hr 15mins she fell asleep, following night she cried for less & by the 4th night she slept through...it was a miracle. She is so happy no, much happier than a few months ago, her day naps are better & she is always smiling. I think in the long run cc was the best for me, my dh & especially my dd. I know it is not everyone's cup of tea but we now have a happy jolly baby & it was so worth the 2 horrible nights!

SpawnChorus · 23/03/2007 21:18

Kiskidee - do you have any links to info re: sleep routines (or lack thereof)? I'd love to read it.

Amysmum - yes, I had almost exactly the same situation with DD and CC was our last (and successful) resort. So I know it can work...it's harder though when you've got a light-sleeping toddler in the next room

Anyway, the good news is that last night DS slept from 7.30 until 7am. Hurrah! We'll see what tonight holds

Thanks to both of you!!

OP posts:
Emprexia · 25/03/2007 13:58

Do you have a bouncer chair?

DS (6.5mo) won't go to sleep on his own, so when he gets tired he gets put in the bouncer, the vibrate goes on and DH or I sit and use our feet to bounce the chair - works lovely.

Once he's spark out we gently pick him up and take him to bed.

kiskidee · 25/03/2007 18:30

i've been busy spawnchorus hence only now getting back to you.

i am not sure how you currently sleep with your baby at night, or naptimes or why you want to achieve a routine. i have posted the paragraph below because it gives a good idea why a 'sleep routine' is not necessarily useful. it is just a stick to beat parents and babies with. sleep routines only came about with the advent of bottlefeeding and if you are breastfeeding, there is little or no benefit to getting your child to sleep on its own at any time of the day or night. so, if you don't mind having your child sleep in a sling during the day, then don't sweat it. you are not 'teaching him bad habits'. the paragraph below gives an idea of what i mean. it comes from a longer document which is very enlightening. you don't have to read all of it or can read some, return to it and come back to it later. you don't even have to read the sections in order.

here

the following paragraph also has an interesting title: "What Scientific Evidence Actually Reveals: Do Cosleeping Or Solitary Sleeping Arrangements Lead To Independent, Happy or Competent Children ?"

if you still do want to look at a sleep routine, you may want to read this one. it says not to try it till after one year but i think you can read it and take away things from it. one of them is that you don't have to leave the room and let your child cry and come back to 'reassure' and then leave.

Why Infants and Children Have ?Sleep Problems? to Solve: The Solitary Infant Sleep Model and the Emperor?s New Clothes

Anywhere between 20 and 45% of otherwise healthy western infants and children are said to suffer from ?sleep disturbances? or ?sleep problems? (see Sadeh and Anders 1993, Anders and Eiben 1997); and western parents are described as the most dissatisfied parents of all with their infants and children?s sleep (Morelli et al 1992). Surely they continue spend millions of dollars each year to learn why their healthy infants seem less interested in sleeping alone than what learned authorities claim is healthy for them.
Clinicians continue to warn parents that in order to establish lifelong ?healthy? sleep habits, infants ?need? and should be ?trained? to sleep alone?and surely, they should never cosleep if the infant or child is ever to complete it?s psychological separation from the parents (Ferber 1999). If the infant cannot fall asleep, or fall back to sleep alone, once it is awake, (self-soothe) a sleep ?disorder? may exist, jeopardizing the infant or child ?s growth toward adaptation, so it is claimed (see Ferber 1985, 1999 and AAP Guide To Your Child?s Sleep, 1999). Self- soothing, which is presumed to reflect early infant independence, is supposed to promote early and later self-assuredness, the emergence of individual competence, as well as personality characteristics judged to be socially advantageous (see Ferber 1999).
The problem is that none of this has ever been shown to be true. It is not known if the type of ?independence? achieved by a self-soothing infant is relevant to any permanent developmental advantage or competency whatsoever. In fact, no researcher has ever defined what ?independence? or ?autonomy? actually means for an infant or young child (McKenna 2000), nor whether infant ?independence? is beneficial at all, or correlates with any particular set of skills or talents not obtainable, or more effectively acquired, through other social experiences or child-care practices, including cosleeping (see below). Indeed, according to the most recent annual report of the National Sleep Foundation (1999) in the United States, 62% of American adults ?report difficulties falling and staying asleep. Sixty percent of children under the age of 18 have complained to their parents about being tired during the day, and 15% admit to falling asleep in school (1999 National Sleep Foundation Annual Report).
Such reports indicate that the solitary infant and childhood ?sleep training? models which promised ?healthy lifetime sleep habits?, advocated for at least 60 years, either failed miserably, or the correlations between early sleeping arrangements and adult psychological development were never true to begin with. Despite this fact traditional folk beliefs refuse to go away. Ferber (1999) and more recently continues to promote myths and false and misleading reasons to keep infants separate from parents during sleep, despite his own public claims to the contrary (Seabrook 1999). When it comes to infant sleep, like religion, believing that solitary infant sleep is superior t o all other sleeping arrangements appears more important than knowing if it is true, or if so, under what specific circumstances; and, of course, even answering such a question, begs yet another question: is this the right question ?
Our work suggests that it is not?that similar to the question about bedsharing safety, what is gained or lost through solitary infant sleep depends on what and who goes into the bed?and what the relational content and meaning is for the participants?who bedshare. We suspect that there exist no such easy psychological correlations between adult character and early sleeping arrangements of a kind used to warn parents against cosleeping. The issue of social, personality and psychological outcomes is, yet again, much more complex and multi-facetted than current literature indicate. For example, it may well be that bedsharing enhances that which is already good about the relationship between parents and their infants and children, or enhance that which is already bad; but it is doubtful that sleep location functions independently of what occurs, for example, between cosleepers during the entire day ---to influence the nature of the social and emotional components that determine moral and personality development.
Sleep guides continue to prefer, however, Spocks and Ferbers? (1985) simplistic and uniform notions that infants sleeping separately and alone from their parents leads to developmental advantages for children as well as benefits to parents and families in general (see AAP Guide To Your Child?s Sleep 1999; Ferber 1985; Godfrey and Kilgore 1998), even without the information on individual families, and systematic studies needed to prove such assertions. And still, anti-bedsharing researchers, in many different areas of discussion, still hold the advantage that comes with 100 years of misunderstanding exactly what healthy infant sleep is. They continue to present and distort, for example, data to fit their own presumptions and cultural predilections about the inherent dangers and disadvantages of parent-infant cosleeping-and sometimes they seem to get away with it as particularly deficient papers continue to pass peer review, as discussed below.

Weegle · 25/03/2007 21:27

Have you tried shush-pat? Baby stays in the cot and gradually you reduce the amount of contact. So to start you put LO in to the cot when they are dozey following feed then shush (like a forceful tap) and pat (gently like the rhythm of a heartbeat - I used to do it on DS shoulder) until they fall asleep. Gradually you can put them in to the cot more awake and also leave them slightly more awake. It worked wonders with DS but takes time! We used it when he was younger though so npt sure whether it will work for/against you with yours being a bit older. Just before I abandoned doing it altogether (and DS self-settled) all I had to do was put DS in the cot and hold my hand on his shoulder for a few seconds, so it is a very gradual thing. HTH and good luck.

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