dawn wake up killing me

[monkey]

I know there's been quite a bit of discussion on this topic already, but I'd really appreciate some other opinions.

My 18 mth ds has started waking early, and I mean early - 4.30, 5 being typical, if i'm lucky 6.

It started 2 weeks ago - we went on holiday and he stared waking at 5.30 /6 - we put it down to the time difference, thinking he was maybe still on 'home time', plus a little out of sorts being in a starnge place, but we've returned home, and he's still waking very early. Up till this he's been a great sleeper.

There are, however a few complications, so I'm all of a dither as to what, if anything I can/should do:-

He had his MMR a week ago. One night he woke a few times, and vomited loads, and a bit the next morning too. Dunno if the 2 are linked, but it's unusual for him to vomit and I don't want to take any chances with him.

I think he might be teething - no sign of new teeth, but he hasn't had any new ones for a while and he's drooling loads and loads at the mo.

He's had a lot of problems with fluid in his ears. In a couple of weeks we've got an appointment with ENT specialists, and they're likely to be discussing surgery. He has, in the last few weeks, on and off suffered a lot of pain in his ears, particularly when lying down, so this might obviously be a factor, but he doesn't have an ear infection, so there are no symptoms as such. I don't just want to ladle calpol down him on the offchance.

It's now really warm where we live, and even with the windows open all day, his room is still really warm. (Don't want to leave windows open at night as it doesn't seem to make much difference, but also worried noise will wake him).

Uncomfortable with cc at the moment for the above reasons. Did it successfully with ds no.1, but he didn't have the health complcations. Plus, ds cries really loud, so don't want older son disturbed - frankly, it's a pain enough getting up so early, but the thought of the whole house up early and grumpy is even worse. Dh isn't terribly supportive - as I'm the one that gets up it doesn't really affect any one but me!

I know it'll pass (fingers crossed ) (eventually), but does anyone have any helpful ideas before I collapse (so bloody bloody hot and tired and I've got no will power to go to bed earlier).

Thanks for 'listening'.

Sorry - he's also totally off his food - dunno if that's teething or ear pain. But I don't think he's waking due to hunger as he won't touch a bite or even a bottle.

His poo is also revilting at the moment.

Saying all that, behaviourally, he seems as happy and playful and bright as ever.

That's why I'm normally on mumsnet before 7am. My DH seems to be very much like yours and he can't understand why I am so tired at night. We also have the added complication of neighbours who are keen to make noise but don't want to listen to it. I've tried black out blinds and hoped that changing the clocks would make a difference but nothing seems to help. Later bedtimes don't mean later mornings either, just a tired, grumpy toddler.
Hopefully you will get some answers from the ENT appointment and if it is a teething problem then hopefully it will soon pass. You have my sympathy.

Ds is always awake by 6.30, which is not a problem for us as we all tend to get up at about that time. However, he has gone through stages of waking at 5, which was awful! Nothing would make him go back to sleep, and keeping him up later in the night time just made him crabby in the day. My HV said that he was entitled to wake at that time but had to 'learn' that he didn't wake up anyone else at that time. So we wouldn't get him out of his cot, but just checked on him untill 6. Not ideal, but he did get the hang of things in the end. I think that it is something you just have to ride out!

My ds has been waking up at 5.30am since March. Luckily my partner alternates getting up early otherwise I dont think I could cope. I keep waiting for it to pass and he's only 11 months so too early to expect him to sit patiently. As it is he wakes up really crying (always has day and night). I've tried everything to get him back to sleep including running round the flat with him in the buggy but he doesn't seem to be able to even though he is obviously still tired. Its so frustrating. We've just been on holiday to the US and he's completely jet-lagged. Waking up at 8am but only after being up in the middle of the night for a couple of hours.
I know this subject arises again and again but if anyone has had success (in under one year olds) in getting a bit more morning sleep I'd love to hear about it.

buttercup, we put our son (now 18 mo.) to bed at 9pm and he sleeps through til 7am. We have had this routine since he was 6 months old or so. (of course it has it's upsets when he's sick or we travel) But the point being perhaps your ds only needs 10 hours sleep at night like ours. If we put our son to sleep at 7pm like our neighbors do with their kids, he'd be up at 5am every day!

monkey - so sorry about the early waking. my 4 year old son wakes at any time between 5.30 am and 7.30 am - I've tried putting him to bed later and that doesn't seem to make any difference - he's just really grumpy the next day!

Re: the ear problems. Have you tried cranial osteopathy? Have you a complimentary medicine clinic close to you?

monkey, it could be the MMR - dd was quite unsettled for 3 weeks after having hers. She didn't actually seem very ill though, until exactly 3 weeks after it when she became very poorly with a v high temperature but it sorted itself out eventually.

Nattie - I think it was you who kindly replied to my question on the ear problems discussion. I don't live in the UK, so I don't hold out much hope of finding a cranial osteopath.

Incidentally, last night he did make it through till 7-ish. Unfortunately I had to get up & go to him 4 times in the night, so I'm totally wrecked and exhausted.
Both ds's are usually 7 - 7 absolutely no prob, so this isn't very welcome, still, I suppose the poor little thing has got so much going on, but still, I am knackered and suffering. Monday nights always seem to be worse - I go to a playgroup on Tuesday mornings, and I'm starting to have flash backs of feeling like death every time I attend!

Buttercup, we did have similar prob with no. 1. We inadvertently did cc. I say inadvertantly, because 1 week we change bedrooms - redecorating and it turns out we plain couldn't hear him. (Well, if he really went for it we could, but just low-level grumbling) We noticed he was suddenly sleeping though, and when we went back to our proper room we had no more problems!

You could try the obvious, blackout blind, room temperature, well-fed before bed. Any nocturnal disturbance, I'd check nappy, offer water, head stroking. Avoid picking utill, if there's another kid to consider that's not so easy.

Does anyone have any great tips for keeping room temperature down? I've tried windows & shutters open all day. If the shutters are shut, not much air gets in, so I didn't think that would help. His room is getting too hot at the mo, but can't think how I can lower the temp. Thanks

Monkey, without going to the expense of air conditioning it looks like you are going to be stuck with the heat. You could try reflective blinds which are kept closed during the day to stop the sun shining into the room, this does seem to work in my DDs bedroom which catches the afternoon and evening sun, she has a blackout/energy efficient/reflective blind. Unfortunately we can't keep our windows open all night most of the time because we have far too many inconsiderate neighbours who like to party, shout, play football etc until the early hours during the better weather. This morning it was car alarms at 5.30am, so I was posting on mumsnet by 6.10. Good Morning everyone!

Sofiames - I've often thought about putting him to sleep much later but I've heard it said that they just wake up the same time and feeling very tired and grumpy. did yours automatically wake up at 7am when you put him down at 9pm? Also how do you cope with the loss of free time in the evening. Mine is so precious I almost prefer the thought of getting up really early, however much it hate it!

I didn't want to post here as I always post the same thing but feel free to ignore me
Look at the GF Q&As on this site as she adressed that question several time when she did the live chat. She may have good suggestions.
We followed her advice and while it works most of the time we have some ups and downs...
I have tried putting DS to bed later... it makes NO difference.

My DD (3) normally asks to go to bed at 7ish but usually wakes between 6 and 6.30. I've tried waiting until 8 to put her to bed but she doesn't sleep any longer and wakes up really horrible for the next day. I only get a lie in if she stays up until around 10pm, but we only get about 1 hour extra in the morning and still have a cranky little girl. Although I do often bring her into our bed if she wakes very early (around 5) and she sometimes goes back to sleep, I have resisted the temptation to tell her just to come into our room when she wakes in case she starts doing it at all hours. At present she will not get out of her own bed and waits, noisily, for one of us to fetch her which I have to do before she wakes DS1&2 or the neighbours. I have learned to live with the early starts and agree that my peaceful evenings are much more valuable.

I don't know if this will help but the last week my ds has been sleeping a little longer in the mornings and I think that it is because we have stripped him down to practically nothing to sleep in. I know the weather has not been great, but it is still warm and sticky, and I now wonder whether he has been too hot in the mornings. Last night he slept in a nappy only in his towelling grobag, but the night before just in a vest and nappy and no grobag. He slept from 6.30 - 7.00 both days and we had been having much much earlier wakenings prior to that.

In addition to our blackout blind (which is not great in glorious sunshine) we have put a large bath sheet over the window to help block out the light and dh has sellotaped it to the wall so that there are less cracks. I'm not a great believer in training children only to sleep in pitch black and silence as I think that it makes problems for later, but when the sun's rising at 4.30am I think there's a need to help keep it out of the bedroom.

HTH may help someone

pupuce - sorry to be a total numbskull but i've looked for the GF Q&As on this site and cannot find them. Still waking up at 5.30am everyday so maybe its just eating away my braincells. Please direct!! thanks

Buttercup, sorry to be answering for someone else (like I said before, I'm a nosey cow) but to find the GF Q & A page go to the mumsnet home page and scroll down to Mumsnet events then click on Gina Ford. HTH

Zoe, would tend to agree with you, I too have been putting dd to bed in just a vest and nappy and she seems to sleep a bit longer in the morning. She also has a sleeping bag. Dh also trigged up a very effective (but no very attractive) piece of hard board at the window which completely blocks out the light and this seems to have done the trick with dd's early morning waking since the spring/summer.

Having battled with early waking myself and seemingly cracked it for the time being, I would also add that keeping them up later makes no difference. I think that toddlers learn to wake up at a certain time and then you need to break the habit. For us what has worked is taking a firm and consistent line. DS was waking up between 5am and 5.30am every day and he was exhausted and so was I. So, I started going in to him with some milk, just so that I could be sure he wasn't hungry and then very firmly saying that he could have the milk and then he must go back to sleep. Naturally, this met with huge protests, so I said that if he didn't stay in his bed and try to go back to sleep I would put the stairgate on his door. He was not impressed and the first day I did this he shouted, screamed, moaned and grizzled until 6.30am when I let him out. The second day I still had to put the stairgate up but he didn't protest as much although he still didn't go back to sleep, on the third day I did still have to use the stairgate but he went back to sleep. We have only been using these tactics for about 5 weeks and he will occasionally still wake up too early. However, when this happens I am really firm about going back to bed and to sleep, otherwise I threaten the gate again and it seems to work.
Good luck to you all.