Need help from other mums with Gina babies please

[IlanaK]

My two and a half week old breast fed baby is on the Gina routines (well sort of!). With my first ds, we had no problems, but this time it is very different. Ds2 does not want to settle in his own bed during the day. Now I know this is normal for such a young baby, but it is not ok with me. He would rather be held or in the sling for sleep. I put him in the sling for the afternoon sleep as we are out and about anyway, but I really need him to have the other 2 sleeps in his own bed sometimes! We don't have much trouble with him at night. He can be difficult to settle at 7, but when he does go off to sleep he sleeps until the 11pm feed and then wakes once in the night for a feed and is awake again by 6:45 to start the day.

So here is my question:

We have resorted to dummies (not that it works always) and bouncing his bed (its a baby hammock on a spring) to get him to sleep sometimes. And this does work if he is tired enough, though not always. So, do you think it is most important at this stage to not set up these sleep associations? Or is it more important to get him sleeping at the right times and for long enough in his own bed (by whatever means necessary) and tackle sleep associations later?

I would say that I was a gina mum (dd now 19 months), but i didn't start until she was 7 weeks. she had a dummy too and settled fine into her sleeping patterns. For me, it was more important to get her sleeping at the right times than to not introduce the dummy (we also found out later that she had reflux, which is allieviated a little by the use of a dummy).

Having said that, I did start later, and I was much more relaxed about sleeping patterns at 2.5 weeks - I figured I'd put up with the inconvenience at that time. I think she might have even still been in our bed then - she really needed the closeness initially, but within 4 weeks, she was sleeping away from me.

Why don't you bring the bed downstairs to start with? Then at least he will be know you are around - that might help.

Re the dummy thing: Gina is, I seem to recall, OK about using a dummy with such a tiny but recommends taking it away by 3 or 4 months to stop a habit forming.

I think both work in tandem... an overtired baby won't settle well. I tend to make sure that ds2 has at least 10mins awake time after he's fed then watch carefully for tiredness signs - this can often be earlier than GF says (I use her more as a "typical day" schedule - religious clockwatching, particularly in the early routines, doesn't allow enough for individuality of babies, imo), but I never put him down later than her times.

I always try and put him down for his morning and lunchtime nap - whether in his own cot, carseat or pram (if I need to go out with ds1 during naptime) but if he doesn't settle well after a period of time then I don't hesitate to do whatever needed to prevent overtiredness later on - hence the onehanded typing at the moment - a sleep in my arms day I think you get to know at what point they're not going to settle that nap.

Don't worry too much about sleep associations, but keep trying. Once they're in a regular pattern of sleep it gets easier and quicker to settle them most times. Gradually they'll start to be happy to go into their cot just drowsy. Dummies can be taken away at 3 months (remove dummy can be helpful though when they've dozed off or just about to so they don't expect it in their mouths all nap/night and get upset if it falls out!)

Sorry this is a bit terse... one handed typing with heavy baby in left arm!!

oh meant to say - ds2 is 7 weeks now. Ds1 was a GF baby too.

Oh and I found white noise really helps, especially in combination with the dummy!

I had similar issues with my dd who follows the GF routine (but not strictly). I found that having my mum to babysit sorted the problem out as she wasn't afraid to leave her to cry herself out - and it worked! Once she was settling herself well at night I put her mobile on as she fell asleep - so during her day naps the mobile would lull her off to sleep though association. Some may think it is swapping one association for another, but at least you get some peace!!! Eventually she got used to her cot and didn't need the mobile anyway.

Oh definitely - babies need sleep associations... come to think of it I have a fair few sleep associations of my own... what you want though are readily portable associations that you will still be happy with once they're a lot heavier than they are now

How is your ds when you put him in his hammock - does he appear happy in it? This is only a query as my ds (now 14m who too was a gina baby) hated his crib and never settled well in it - would never nap in it and took some time for us to get him to sleep in it in the evenings. We didn't recognise this as being the problem at first but when we decided to try him in his cotbed, he settled straight away and we haven't looked back since. He seemed much happier having the space around him. It does take some time for babies to settle into a routine so keep going and you will find suddenly that it all just fits into place. Good luck

At such a young age you can form sleep associations that work for a while, and then, when something else is more convenient, change the sleep association if needed. The one association that I have a problem with (from experience! ) is leaving a dummy in the baby's mouth while he sleeps. Certainly for us the night-time sleeping was the most important. We got started on day-time routines at about one month. Your ds sounds really sorted night-wise!

It could well be that your ds is actually overtired, therefore not settling well. Or perhaps his tummy bothers him and sleeping upright helps. At this age, where he sleeps and how he gets to sleep during the day are not that important - create the sleep associations at night and they will gradually creep into the daytime sleeps.

BTW, I'm also a sort-of-Gina Mum.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I decided you were all right and tried the dummy rocking thing. But it didn't work! The dummy fell out as soon as he started crying. And the rocking/bouncing the hammock worked for as long as I was doing it,but he started to cry as soon as I stopped. So I decided neither of those things were worth it.

He sleeps fine at night so we are lucky I guess. I have tried leaving him to cry during the day, but he still does not go to sleep. He does sleep really well in the sling, so I am resorting to that quite often in the day. I am hoping it will all sort itself out if he finds his thumb (as ds1 did at 9 weeks old and he then slept through the night!).

We have the same problem although my DD is 5 weeks old. She settles well at night around 8ish in her moses basket and sleeps until a feed at 2 ish, however if we try to put her down during the day for a nap she screams the place down. I cant even lay her in her rocking chair. The only way she will sleep is in my arms. I did try and keep putting her down to sleep but tbh she kept crying each time which meant she wasnt getting any sleep, I was also getting upset as she cried all the time. Ive given up now and just think that as long as she gets some sleep then at least thats ok and if she'll only do it in my arms than thats what it takes. I did find when I tried to do GF that the awake times are far too long. DD is awake from 7am - 8.30am and then sleeps the rest of the day(inbetween crying fits) until 6ish, shes then awake until 8.30. Ive now given up on GF.

We had same problem with dd2 in the early weeks. She's now 5 months, but at the beginning, she couldn't stay awake for as long as GF suggested, and she also wouldn't sleep for longer than 45 mins. Having had a model GF baby first time around, I was surprised. However, because the naptimes don't actually fit with the routine we need to have for our 3 year old (specifically the lunchtime sleep clashes with nursery collection!), I decided not to push things with the GF routine, and have gone with the flow a bit more.

I decided to follow Gina principles (majority food during the day, darkened rooms for naps, not too much sleep during the day), and not worry too much about what happened when.

In general, this has worked well, although I would have loved for her to sleep longer in the middle of the day. I am hoping that once she starts on solids, I may be able to encourage her to do this, because it's always seemed as though she's woken after 45 mins because she's hungry.

The main problem I have is that she does get very tired towards the end of the day, and, if I'm not careful, I either have an overtired baby who doesn't settle, or, if she's had a nap late in the afternoon, one who's had too much sleep and not enough food before bedtime.

I do think teething is playing its part (she has 2 teeth already). She's not on solids yet as I have been trying to stretch things out to 6 months, so there has been some confusion as to whether her recent increased night wakings are teeth or hunger. What I have tried is a bit of Calgel first, rather than instantly feeding her. If she settles back down easily then I know it's not hunger. I am lucky though, in that we've never had a problem with her settling herself (thumb).

HTh