6 month old can't settle to sleep without the boob

[Claiiire]

Hello,

I was hoping for a magic solution to solve our bedtime battles. My 6.5 month old baby is breastfed and cannot go to sleep from being awake. He needs a boob and won't take a dummy. If I put a dummy in his mouth he may suck on it for a second but self sabotages the whole operation and removes it himself - often resulting in tears. Then he plays with it for a bit. Either way its acting as more of a sleep distraction rather than a sleep aide. I have worked hard to create a lovey which is a smelly bunny thing that he seems to like and perhaps associates with sleep. White noise occasionally works to at least calm him down. Until now I have fed him whenever he wakes in the night even if I know he is full as it is the only way we can help him to fall asleep. He's always been a sicky baby but there is no doubt that he is eating until he is sick now, and would carry on and on if I let him. We have just started solids which he is loving and managing 3 meals a day so Im sure the extra milk is just too much and what he is wanting is the comfort not the milk. If only you could switch a button off! He has recently jumped from the 75th to the 91st centile so maybe he's had a growth spurt but think more likely its the solids and milk combo?

During the day we have a couple of buggy naps that can be up to 1hr15 mins long and a short one at lunch time that tends to be no longer than 1/2hr. We tend to manage 2 hrs at a time.

I am committed to teaching him to fall asleep without the boob as I have no doubt it will definitely be doing him a favour in the long run; I am not doing it to get a full nights sleep and fully accept a couple of peckish night wakings is normal for his age.

My question is, is there a gentle way to do this? My current plan is to change our bedtime routine from:

(Dinner
Play)
Bath
Boob
Bed when floppy
WAKES UP
Rocked by dad (fails)
Boob until pukes
Tears +++
etc.etc. Bedtime at the moment is about 10.30 :(

to

Boob
Bath
Book / song
Bed with white noise and lovey.

We were going to use a cry it out method that involves leaving him to cry for no more than 3/5 minutes which sounds a bit more like pick up put down... We are willing to persevere and know we may be in for a long slog. I would rather do something more gentle obviously but am willing to do whatever works at this point.

Just to mention I'm really not into co-sleeping as wake up with the fear all the time. Side boob works sometimes but often his latch is a bit awkward and its sore for me. He is currently in his own cot in our room after outgrowing the side cot.

Many many thanks for any help. xxx

Could you remove one side off the cot and wedge it up to your bed?

That means you can lie down next to baby and do your in-cot settling while lying on your bed.

Sadly no. Not enough room in the room and cot side only comes partially down. I really struggle to get him to lie in his cot calmly. He doesn't really respond to me shhhing or saying soothing words / songs or even patting. Occasionally I can catch him with some white noise and he goes a little starey... I think I'm going to just resign myself to feeding to sleep for the near future and putting up with the wake ups. The level of crying that bedtime is involving at the moment is just too much, and likely due to our CC the other night. I think DS needs consistency and it's the only way I can think to give it to him at the moment.

So is the cot not even in your room?

No wonder you're knackered, trapsing back and forth to another room.

You could make your life a lot easier by taking steps to maximise your sleep, without actually changing anything with baby. Number 1 would be not having to get up. If cosleeping isn't your thing, then do you have a chest of drawers in your room? A dressing table? You could ship them out (into the nursery?) for now. Shift furniture around. It really doesn't matter if the room doesn't look aesthetically pleasing, just focus on maximising your own sleep and comfort.

Some basic things to get more sleep yourself:

• turn your clock around so you can't see it
• don't count wake ups. Don't time their length and don't measure the time between wake ups.
• do as much as you can to settle baby without getting up. With practice you can do settling without even opening your eyes if the cots right there next to you.
• master feeding lying down, so you can doze while feeding
• sleep at every opportunity in the daytime
• realise the value in just lying down in a dark room with your eyes shut for 15 minutes, even if you can't sleep.

Posted to soon...

If having the cot in your room is absolutely impossible, set something comfortable up in the nursery for yourself. A proper bed in there with a good quality mattress would be ideal. Or a put-up bed. Or a mattress onnthe floor. Somewhere you can be properly comfy, warm and sleep if needed.

Maybe take a step back op. Carry on with bf to sleep but start introducing other sleep cues. Put the lovey between you and baby whole you bf. Switch on a mobile, ds has a music, lightshow thing. He watches it on the ceiling. Get him used to these things while bf to sleep.

Make the cot a nice place, will he go in it happily? Ds was put in his cot during the day to play long before sleeping in it and has always been happy to be put in.

OP I'm really sorry if you've already answered this but do you feed with the white noise on? This cut down my DS's feeding to sleep time significantly. You're doing a great job and anyone could see how much you care about your son's needs

I really didn't mean to be harsh and I don't think you're putting your needs first - just expecting too much to go from boob to sleep to settling with no boob.

Also the fact he's eating 3 times a day is a bit if a red herring IMO, milk is still his main diet. :)

And I admit to being a big softy who can't deal with even my big DC crying. I even find reading about babies crying hard so projecting a bit.

Mine didn't really do very quick feeds either so I just read til they were zonked or fed lying down as Fate said then transferred to cot.

The sick is annoying. Mine were all pukers too and is very tiring with all the extra laundry! :(

Hoe you get some rest soon.

Been reading through this hoping to find answers as well I'm pretty much in the same boat!
Hv told me that by 6 months they don't need fed during the night, mine is waking up every few hours and only falls back to sleep feeding and has been waking up for 2 hours during the night just wanting to play. She told me that if I can bare it it may be a case of letting her cry it out, and not to worry as we've got a great bond already (which you clearly do too) and they're absolutely not going to remember t in the morning.
I also know my mum let me cry it out and I clearly grew up absolutely fine no issues and was a good sleeper afterwards!

But I totally know how you feel in terms of too much info, I feel absolutely the same and the same with weaning. There's too much info and people have very strong opinions so go with what you think is right!

I'm planning to move her into her own room as I'm hoping being able to walk away will help and she'll not smell milk during the night?

You have a great bond with your baby he's well fed and you're doing fab!

I'm sorry I haven't read the whole thread. Just wanted to say he will learn to settle without the boob eventually. But why rush it. 6mths is very young. Certainly too you to leave to cry it out and for controlled crying in my opinion. Mine fed to sleep almost every night and some naps until about 14mths. I don't regret that. It definitely wasn't harder the nights she didn't fall asleep feeding. Took far longer to settle her and I almost always had to try feeding again! Good luck. But please don't leave him to cry.

I feel your pain op. Ds is 9 months, must be settled by me and no-one else, likes to feed until just before sleeping but fortunately does take a dummy. We have just bought him a sleepy tot which I'm hoping he might form an attachment to.

My DH tried to settle him tonight, an hour of crying (whilst sat being cuddled and rocked by DH) until I gave in and took over. He was asleep in 5 minutes flat. I had fed him before DH took over so I don't think he was hungry.

I think I'm just going to stick to feeding him for now as it seems he's not prepared to countenance anything else!

I hate co-sleeping too as spend the whole night semi alert and don't really sleep. Our bedroom has just enough space for a double and bedside tables so no space for a full size cot. The only way I've found that works for me is using the sleepyhead. If ds is having a particularly bad night DH moves into the spare room and I have ds on his side of the bed in the sleepyhead. I can relax then because the covers are away from him and I know he can roll off or onto a pillow and I can't roll onto him. Might be worth looking into.

We had success using a previous poster''s suggestion of building different sleep associations. We couldn't stop DS falling asleep when I gave him his bedtime feed no matter what we tried, so we gave up and tried to teach him to start dozing off before his feed.

After bath and story, DH started rocking DS (in a rocking chair) in his room in the dark. He initially only did it for a short spell, and then I went in and fed him to sleep. We gradually increased the length of time DH rocked him for, and as DS got used to it he started to drift off until he was almost asleep when I went in, and then after a couple of months reached the stage where he did fall asleep and it was then a dream feed. It also had the advantage of making it a very efficient feed - no playing around and pulling on my hair etc.

Once wed got to that stage DH then started cutting back on how much help he gave - cutting down how much rocking he was doing until he just sat there holding him, and then moved to lying next to him at the bed. We found at about 12 months we were then able to swap the order and do his bedtime feed first in our room in the light and he no longer fell asleep for it.

I think the OP also said their DC napped in the pushchair. I'm assuming you don't feed them to sleep then - do you walk them to sleep. Naps are another opportunity to teach them to fall asleep by themselves. We gradually cut down on how much pushing I did until all I had to do is put DS in it in the hallway.

Hi all,

Sorry I just disappeared there on page 1. Just thought I'd update you on our really boring sleep progression!

FATE, we have a cot in our room but unable to get it next to the bed.

Like some of you suggested, I have been working on establishing some other sleep associations so that when the day comes to start withdrawing our rocking and feeding, there is something else there to provide a bit of sleep inducing comfort. I am doing every single nap the same way. A page of his book, maybe a quick feed if needed, then into sleeping bag and pram with dummy (which he chews on - so thats something!), bunny and white noise. We are out in the sticks so have a nice long bumpy road to wheel him on but I'm barely getting to the end of the garden any more before he's drifted off! The plan is to get him sleeping in a non moving buggy outside, to a non moving buggy inside, eventually with an awake-to-sleep-cot-nap the final goal.

We use the same (sleeping bag, white noise, bunny and dummy) for bedtime, and I have persuaded my partner to come home from work a bit early to take over. We have a fun bath then onto pre warmed sheepskin (ridiculous I know!) for some tickles, massage and PJ time. Then I feed him in the lounge. DH comes home half way through all this and takes him after his feed, puts his sleeping bag on takes him into the bedroom and then does quick book, white noise and rocking.

So now we are at the stage where my boob guzzler is being rocked to sleep quite happily. The overall trend is that its taking less rocking time for him to go off to sleep which is brilliant. However, we are both too scared to put him down in his cot until he has properly 'gone under'. Has anyone got any suggestions for our next move?

Fate, I think tonight we will likely have a go at wedging the cot between my side of the bed and wall. This will mean literally taking the side off (not part of the cot design!) Our mattress is about 5 inches higher than his but he's obviously rolling around independently now AND in a sleepyhead so not too worried. He is still waking to feed and ending up in bed with me every night so am still pretty shattered. DH come in (he's in the spare room) in the morning to take him to give me an extra hour so that is really helping. All in all am a lot less emotionally fried than when I started this thread! Thanks again for all your kind words.

We are in the midsts of teething and a nasty sore throat viral thing (if how Im feeling is anything to go by, I'm assuming he has the same thing poor thing) so not doing any changes at the mo, but would be good to get some advise on the next steps... thanks!

So now we are at the stage where my boob guzzler is being rocked to sleep quite happily. The overall trend is that its taking less rocking time for him to go off to sleep which is brilliant. However, we are both too scared to put him down in his cot until he has properly 'gone under'. Has anyone got any suggestions for our next move?

That's fantastic progress!

In the space of 2 weeks you have stopped needing to feed to sleep, that is awesome.

Next steps are slowing and stopping rocking until just stationary in-arms cuddles to sleep. Then lying down cuddles in 3-sided cot. Then gradually withdrawing dependant on you. You could skip the in-arms cuddling step and go straight to in-cot lying down cuddles if you want to do it faster, it might be more stressful though.

Some suggested gradual withdrawal steps:

• rock to sleep, into cot asleep
• rock to just fallen asleep, into cot, lie next to cot on your bed and put firm hand on chest to settle. Pick up and start again if upset.

(The "firm hand" thing is a useful in-cot settling technique. Don't push down or lean on baby, but also don't gently place hand. It needs to be fairly firm and heavy, so baby can feel your reasuring presence even with eyes closed. Can be teamed with lifting and stopping fingers on firm hand to pay, and some shushing, if baby needs more reassurance)

• rock initially to settle baby then stand still just cuddling if quiet and calm. If any grizzling rock and, stop when calm. Into cot just before fully asleep, firm hands on chest/back/side.

• rock initially and then just cuddle to sleep. Put into cot slightly earlier and settle with firm hand. Pat and shush if needed. Lift and start again if this doesn't resettle.

• do rocking as part of bedtime routine (for example while reading a book) rather than just in the process of going to sleep. Into cot, try to settle with firm hand on chest/back/side. Cuddle close while in sidecar cot. Lots of cuddles, eye contact, patting and shushing (and dummy reinserts)

• into cot straight after story with dummy. Cuddle close. Firm hand on chest/back/side. Keep hand still when calm, pat when unsettled. Reinsert dummy as needed.

• into cot awake, firm hand to settle, remove hand when calm but stay cuddles close as you lie on your bed. Put hand back if unsettled, remove hand but maintain eye contact when settled.

• into cot awake with dummy. Firm hand to settle. When calm remove hand and roll over to face ceiling (this is assuming you are lying on your bed next to the cot). Roll back to face baby if needed, firm hand if needed, roll onto back (so breaking eye contact, which has been constant up to this point) when calm.

• into cot with dummy, roll to face away from cot but stay lying on your bed next to cot. Roll over and resettle if upset, but withdraw when calm.

• into cot with dummy. Roll to other side of your bed.

• into cot with dummy, sit on edge of your bed

And so on...

Sorry about my autocorrect fails. Correction:

"Can be teamed with lifting and stopping dropping fingers on firm hand to pay pat, and some shushing, if baby needs more reassurance"

Thanks for this, will definitely have a go. Had a bit of a wobble last night and wouldn't settinebut putting it down to top teeth emerging (2 at s time) and high temp.

In general how long would you wait between steps? Or would you move fairly quickly? I.e. when one thing established try the next one the next night? Or wait until consistent before trying the next thing?

It depends on the child and also how much stress and upset you are prepared to deal with.

An "easy" sleeper will go through the steps much quicker than a "needy" sleeper. Then you can go through the steps at a pace that creates no upset, so baby is always given enough comfort to feel settled, but in an ever withdrawing way. Or you can make the changes quicker. Baby may get more upset and cry more than the slower paced, but it's quicker.

My youngest was something of a needy sleeper. I started this process of gradual withdrawal from newbies and it took until 12 months to reach the point of putting baby in the cot standing up with dummy and I could just say nan night and leave. She's never so much as grumbled through the process, I was very slow and gradual, but always with a view to independant sleeping.

There were various times we needed to move up and down the ladder, so withdraw some and then take 3 steps backwards, then make progress again. Things like illness, teething, moving into own room - these all resulted in some backwards steps. But then just progress back up the steps afterwards.

Compare to my two sons - they were both easy sleepers. Again I started the process of gradual withdrawal from newborn. With one I could put down awake and leave by about 6 months old. With the other, he was able to do this from about 7 weeks old (!). Just goes to show the effects of different personality types, even when you parent the same way.

SO!

We are struggling again. Little man is now an absolute bonafide cot refuser and I wonder if its because we went a little too fast. We just can't seem to make the leap from in arms cuddles to the cot whilst being awake and have to listen to big tears which are impossible to tolerate. The 'in cot soothing' is particularly difficult as, short of a high intensity light show, DS gets not a jot of comfort from anything, including shhing or patting, and if I attempt holding the dummy in his mouth he is left raging. He definitely is forming an attachment to the skanky bunny, and plays with his ears and likes sucking the label on it. But its possible I rushed things after reading the 'what worked for us' thread, thinking that things would get better, but actually night three saw us all in tears and me BF all night long.

My question is this: Are naps and bedtime linked? Could we use our nap routine for bedtime without causing major confusion? DS naps are consistent and reliable in a buggy outside. He whimpers a little but after gentle pushing he drifts off and stays asleep for up to two hours. I wonder if we could utilise his sleep association and use the buggy at bedtime (obviously not outside!) but don't want to risk confusing him even more! after our routine, if we ended up with him in the buggy (flat setting on bugaboo chameleon) we could perhaps get him used to falling asleep without motion. My thinking is that eventually the leap from motionless buggy to cot may not be so severe. I suppose I know this isn't the best idea because DS is an inch away from crawling (putting a timer on the three sided cot set up we currently have) and rolling, but I really don't think he'd roll out of the buggy...

Im sure if we persevered with the in cot shhing he'd work out how to fall asleep (he IS getting there, and does get some comfort from his lovey) but wondered if the buggy trick might be more gentle.

Has anyone done anything like this?

I know I sound a little glib at times and don't mean to. I should add that the other reason we sped up the process is due to my partners arms and back giving in and wanting to keep my boobs as far away as possible it was hard to share the load!

The problem with using the pushchair at bedtime is the fact that baby would need to be transferred, asleep, from pushchair to cot. Transferring a sleeping baby should be avoided. It won't help baby's sleep habits and will only make them worse.

Naps in the pushchair aren't a problem because baby goes asleep in the pushchair and stays asleep in there. Making gradual changes to reduce the amount of movement needed will be helpful though.

Definately loose the light show thingy at bedtime, it needs to be calm and subdued.

Are you cuddling up into your cosleeper? Like the way you would if lying on your bed with baby and snuggling together.

I wouldn't have lots of bells and whistles attached to bedtime. Just into cot, cuddle up close together - from head to foot cuddle right up to physically close. Lots of eye contact. Then firm hand on baby's chest/shoulder. The firm weight of your hand gives a reassuring presence even when baby closes his eyes.

• Snuggle close, all the way around baby (that's the benefit of the sidecar cot!)
• eye contact

-firm hand

• immediate dummy reinserts as needed

Then just wait. Be calm, quiet, still, ever present, reassuring and physically close. No noise. Very little (if any) movement.

Thanks FATE. This just isn't working for us though. We are having up to 90 minutes of tears at bedtime no matter how much snuggling and reassuring I am doing, he just wants to BF/suck. We can't get him to take the dummy.

The best I could do was to feed him to sleep then wake him up a little after 10 mins or so. So maybe I'll work on reducing that time until Im putting him down 'drowsy'.

Feeling a bit dejected about it all but also like aborting the in cot settling awake is the right thing to do. Bedtime is just too stressful for all. I think cry it out might even be kinder. My presence just upsets him more. If I snuggle up to him he tries to latch on to me anywhere, desperately. My face, my hand...

So, back to square one. But maybe he (we? me?) isn't ready yet. Thanks for all your help! Gonna focus on making bedtime a lovely thing, and getting naps in the cot using non-moving-pram-technique down!

Thanks for all advice. x

also like aborting the in cot settling awake is the right thing to do

It might be. Don't resign yourself to that, embrace it.

Bedtime should be lovely, not stressful.