Reflux, how do we sleep?!

[Sparrowlegs248]

Ds 3.5 weeks has silent reflux and a lot if wind. He's bf, and has gaviscon every other feed.

He woke fir a feed 12.15. Fed, changed nappy, winded etc. Held upright. (I fell asleep propped up in bed with him on my chest)

Woke up, offered feed, refused. Put back in sleepyhead. Minutes later, the noises start again getting progressively worse. Of course it's two hours since last feed. So he's feeding again despite having refused ten minutes ago.

I'm.exhausted. Other child gets up before six. I've been up with Ds2 since 1/2 am all week.

The only thing that worked for us was to put ds to sleep on his front and also raising the head of the crib. This is not recommended advice, I did a lot of research, talked to mums and looked on the Internet to make an informed decision about the potential risk compared with the potential benefit. The health visitor advised me that she couldn't tell me to do it so couldn't help me with advice, but in the end I started trying it in the daytimes and it really helped.

I was on the situation where I was sleeping upright holding the baby on my chest and was concerned that he was going to slip down or fall off so I reasoned that in his basket was safer.

It was a very tough few months, I really feel for people going through it.

All babies have reflux to a certain degree but sometimes this can present in more concerning ways. But the symptoms here do sound like general newborn behavior, at least the ones I have met.

Mine was very similar and I was also on my knees with exhaustion and remember thinking we'd made a terrible mistake having DC. We were prescribed gaviscon for suspected reflux, this in turn caused terrible constipation which the gp wanted to treat with lactulose which then caused stomach cramps. It was a never ending cycle. We decided to stop all medication.

In reality I think she was just behaving as babies do, wanting to be constantly held. After 9m in the womb it must be so strange to feel digestion, wind, hunger, fullness etc. Over time the 'symptoms' subsided, especially when we managed to get her to nap better.

This might not be relevant to your situation but I thought it might help, I do think we are too quick to jump to the assumption of reflux.

Thanks for everyone's input. Is it normal though? No one else of my mum friends has had this. Ds1 wanted to be held, and not be put down. He woke every single time I put him down until I started Co sleeping.

This is different. He's still unhappy when being held, until he's been upright for a decent period of time after a feed. This can be an hour or more.

I started off swaddling but can't keep his arms in. I am using a dummy, he will take it for a bit but once he's unsettled like this he's not interested.

@FateDestiny you've been incredibly helpful with all of your advice re ds1, what would you suggest in this situation? I am really struggling with being up all night, and no chance for rest in the day.

Maybe I should stop the gaviscon for a couple of days and see if there's any difference?

I'm going to go to a bf group also as I do think he is taking a lot of air in, he can be fussy on the breast.

I'm persisting with the dummy, sure he'll get the hang of it as he's not rejecting it. Co sleeping doesn't help.

The behaviours your describe could be caused by masses of different things. Personally, I would not jump straight to medication but would work on more basic things first.

Lots of what you describe suggests a baby in discomfort. So bearing in mind where baby was 1 month ago, "discomfort" does not mean pain. It certainly doesn't automatically mean reflux.

Discomfort could be:

• a hungry baby will feel discomfort. He has never experienced hunger in the womb

• A tired, over stimulated baby will feel discomfort. In the womb baby was used to a calm, subdued environment.

• An "exposed" (for want of a better word) baby will feel discomfort. A month ago baby was used to feeling tightly held in position, secure, safe and never alone in the womb.

• Pain can also cause discomfort. I wouldn't automatically jump to this conclusion though.

Remembering baby has no control over muscular movements past flexes. So pulling legs up doesn't automatically mean digestion issues. It just means unhappy baby. Baby could be unhappy about anything.

If it is pain from wind, and it might be, again I would not automatically assume reflux. Wind can be caused by:

• poor latch
• poor feeding technique
• inadequate winding after a feed
• crying

People forget the last one. A crying baby is taking in massive gulps of air which could easily be swallowed and give wind pain. Nothing to do with feeding or reflux.

what would you suggest in this situation?

Follow your instincts. You do know best so trust your decisions. If you feel medication is right, give the medication and get more. You know your son better than anyone else on the planet.

I would also try to relax. I know it's a cliche to say that, but stop trying to turn baby into something. Just "be" and let baby "be" in whatever form that takes. If you feel yourself getting overly anxious, talk to your GP.

Try to make this "fourth trimester" as calm as possible for baby. As much feeding as possible. Sleeping as much as possible. Everything you can do to provide comfort and security for baby - movement, rocking, swaddle, dummy, feeding to sleep, cuddles. You can do all of those while also sat on the floor playing with a toddler.

Thanks Fate. He's not, or shouldn't be, hungry. He's fed on demand and it's the first thing I would offer, easiest to rule out I guess. Feeds every 1-3 hrs, not often stretching to 3.

Tired and over stimulated - at times maybe, but thankfully once asleep not much disturbs him. But I guess a tired baby can be an unhappy baby.

I do need to get to a bf workshop as feel he can be fussy, noisy etc to feed and has a lot of gas. Will open mouth wide and bop head around before latching.

And yes I do need to relax, I don't think my home situation is helping this sort if thing. I'm not anaturally anxious person!

I'be nothing to add to the advice youve been given other than to ask how you're making up/ giving the gaviscon? I know the packet says a sachet in 15mls of water for bf babies but thats practically impossible! As long as youre giving it with a feed, you can mix it in a smaller amount (e.g 5mls) amd it can be mixed in expressed breast milk. Makes it much easier to give and easier for them to take. Hopefully you get thibgs better soon. If you have any support make the most of them to help you sleep, even if its just taking him for a couple of hours after a feed while you nap.

Thanks iwill I am using 5ml of water now. Napping is a no go for me as I have ds1 also.

Fate what fantastic advice! I wholeheartedly agree with Fate OP,that lots of the behaviour sounds very much like normal newborn '4th trimester'. Just because your friends babies haven't behaved like this doesn't mean it isn't common.Someone earlier in the thread mentioned ranitidine is just 'mild' medication. This is misleading. Like all medication it comes with a list of side effects and though it is widely prescribed it doesn't mean it is harmless and some babies may suffer side effects. It is also unlicensed at this age (essentially means drug trials didn't extend to include this age group) Also beware of people poo pooing your GPs reasons for not wanting to prescribe. Yes it may be inexperience of prescribing off license or there may be other concerns hence an opinion from paediatrics. Is your baby gaining weight ok?
My 5 month old is my 3rd and has very similar symptoms. He too is BF, I know how tiring is is when it takes 2 hours to settle then the next feed is due. A wedge hog (see Amazon) helped as well as sling and also me napping in the day where possible ( this is doable I know everyone laughs at this suggestion but I managed short naps with support of grandparents and husband with3 kids and it kept me going!) it is slowly getting better now. Reflux is so common and just an immature muscle at top of stomach which will improve. Don't let people over medicalise it, it will only aggravate your anxiety. Good luck

OK. I doubt myself frequently, hence posting here. And I get little support at home. I mean GP's are fabulous but one set won't venture an opinion and the other over dramatise everything.

Using my own judgement and experience with ds1who wanted to be help or snuggled up to me for every sleep, I'm pretty sure this isn't normal newborn behaviour.

Apart from.anything else, if I can get the gaviscon in, it seems to be helping. If only it wasn't so bloody difficult to get in.

He doesn't just want to be held. He absolutely needs to be upright for much of his day and night.

I don't know how I'm.supposed to nap when he does in the day as mostly he's in the sling and ds1 is awake.

I think having a baby with reflux is very difficult and looking back I should have let other ppl hold her while I at least lay down. But I didn't. I wanted to be the one to comfort her and I now realise I ended up with exhaustion and PND. If I'm honest her meds helped with the reflux but by then she had got used to being on me and nothing got better for me sleep wise until I was completely rock bottom and we did controlled crying which changed our lives!

Yes sassensxh I'm worried hell get used to being held all the time.

I don't know how I'm.supposed to nap when he does in the day as mostly he's in the sling and ds1 is awake.

Focusing on DS1's sleep will have more effect on this than DS2's sleep.

When DS1 is having a solid, predictable cot nap at a specific time of the day, then while you can't predict DS2's naps yet, you can get a lie down in yourself.

Then, once DS1 is having his nap, you make sure you've eaten something, had a wee, locked the front door and switched the TV off. And the moment DS1 wants a feed you take both of you upstairs onto your bed, have a lie down feed and nap together.

It really is about taking any possible opportunity for a rest. If your mum/sister/friend comes round, have them trained for asking if you want a nap while they are here. Even 15 minutes alone in a dark room with your eyes shut will help. Likewise as soon as DH gets home from work - take yourself into a dark room and rest for half an hour. Not all night, just long enough to recharge slightly. Take baby with you an nap together if you need to, rest knowing someone else is in charge of the toddler.

Hey,
I was in the exact same position as you, it's absolutely exhausting and so demoralizing. In the end I decided to cut out all dairy and soy from my diet and my baby has been so much better since. It took about two weeks to see a real difference but now we are all sleeping better and she's definitely more comfortable after feeds.

Update, baby is congested, choking and bubbling around the mouth, pretty much constantly.

I'm pretty fucked off that he's having to go through this for four bastard weeks before he'll be seen.

Go and demand that he is seen

It really sounds like cmpa. If you're still breastfeeding then just cut dairy and soya out of your diet, you'll see an improvement in the next week or so (but it can take up to 6 weeks for the. proteins to clear from yours and babies system completely). The referral won't help on that front they'll just advise you to cut dairy to trial it, or they'll push formula. Join the cmpa for breastfeeding Facebook group, it's really supportive and can answer lots of your qs.

FATE's posts are excellent OP, I would also suggest reading this blog by Northern Ireland IBCLC Carol Smyth which talks about the risks of medication and the importance of identifying root cause of the symptoms with skilled breastfeeding support
mammaeblog.blogspot.ie/2015/05/reflux-and-breastfeeding.html
She also has a Facebook group where you can seek help

My baby is having similar problems but she's an only child so I'm getting a lot more rest. One thing I'm looking into is: is this mild tongue tie? Is she taking on too much air because of a bad latch? Going to see an ENT doc this week to look into it.

Has your baby got any signs of a tongue tie?

How's his breathing? Being congested can significantly affect a baby's ability to breathe, especially when feeding.

Bronchillitis (sp?) can be a serious outcome in a newborn for what would otherwise just be a vold in older babies.

The congestion seems to come and go, when he lays down he sounds like he's breathing through a snotty nose, coughs and chokes on the acid. I'm seeing a mw this afternoon and also will take him back to Dr's late too.

The congestion was much of the night but there's been a break from it this morning. I feel like I'm rambling a bit but things seem very bad in the middle of the night, added to the fact that I've just become single.

Oh Notta :-(

Hugs from me. Are you ok? Have you spoken to the doctor at all about how you are feeling post-birth? It might be worth mentioning to the HV/GP later today.

I'm taking baby back to Dr's this afternoon. Thanks Fate. I don't think it's anything sinister (with me I mean) just an understandable reaction to everything that's going on.