4month sleep regression...is this permanent change or phase?

[Tabitha1983]

http://www.babysleepsite.com/baby-sleep-patterns/4-month-sleep-regression/?awtl=H4O7o&awttm=J0gIiyFZPuxETn&utmsource=autoresponder&utmmmedium=byage&utm_campaign=4months

After some help (again!) ladies...or clarification?!
..We've hit the 4 month sleep regression...and the hourly wake ups have returned ...sometimes 2-3 if I'm really lucky! DS settles immediately once dummy is replaced so I'm happy he's not hungry (obviously I feed him too at some wakes!)...but my question is if according to the link above this 4month sleep regression is a permanent change in sleep pattern does that mean that sleep training is unavoidable? I think I understand the theory that as he is cycling into light sleep every hour he requires the dummy to go back to sleep....however, this is ok if it's a 'phase' but not if it's forever and is a 'permanent' change?!
Really don't want to loose the dummy as it has helped massively with self settling and for naps (although tonight I'm not feeling the love for it lol!)
...any thoughts? Anybody been in same boat and just rode it out with the dummy and it turned out ok?! Or am in denial and need to sort this out? X

I'm a sleep consultant. What's his day schedule like? Babies who are overtired, even by a little get a surge of stress hormones (cortisol, adrenaline) that cause them to fight going to sleep, sleep more restlessly and wake sooner.

Bedtime at 7 may be fine but it may not be if he's overtired at that point and has been awake for too long. Finding the right wake window is important and it changes throughout the day. It's usually shorter in the morning and extends as the day goes on.

The best way to find his wake window is to keep a log. Record sleep and make any notes of tired signs. Families I work with use an app called Baby Connect (no affiliation) or keep a notebook handy. By the time he shows tired signs, he's like already overtired but if you've made note of when they happen, it's easier to learn from and try to get him down earlier next time.

Sleep training is definitely not inevitable. Getting the timing right to avoid becoming overtired is the first step and can make a massive difference to sleep. As mentioned above, sleep begets sleep. Good luck! I hope you all get more rest soon!

Morning Sleepylambs...thank you so much for replying. That's reassuring Thankyou!...feel overwhelmed at the thought of having to 'sleep train'...would rather we just gradually got it 'right' and his sleep improved naturally?!
So over tiredness is probably the issue as both you and Fate point out. I try to get him to nap every 1.5-2 hours but he only naps for 1 sleep cycle...so say 45mins ish...which means 2 hours is probably too long awake time I guess??
Is it better to work on regular naps or try to extend each nap?? He woke 2 hourly last night not hourly so that's a slight improvement lol! X

Very interesting reading some of the comments above. Babies are all so different and none of these books and solutions are right for everyone. Neither of my children needed any milk during the night from around 3-4 months old. We also gently sleep trained (no hideous crying, but very very strict routine) so when either of them regressed we just persisted and within a week they were sleeping through again. What was important with my two was totally regular daytime naps (same time and and length of time) totally regular milk times during the day, then up to bed by 7pm. It would have ruined their sleep to be messed around being downstairs in the evening until late. And the dream feed was a disaster for us. They didn't want milk in the night as they had filled up well in waking hours. So we just let them sleep.

Oh and mind both had two daytime naps. At 4 months old they had 45 mins to one hour at 9.30-10am then about 2-3 hours at 12.30-1pm. Then bed at7pm. Up and first feed at 7am.

Sounds fantastic jugglemonkey! I agree...I think? Presumably if they take enough milk during the day then they don't need it at night 😬 DD1 was formula fed and slept through from about 3-4 months too (dream feed at 10pm)......no sleep training...just slept?!
DS2 seems much tricker....EBF so that doesn't help as I don't know his milk intake?....also struggling with really short naps...which doesn't help in setting a routine 😕 He does go 'up to bed' every evening though around 6:30-7pm x

Do you like your new name 🙈😂

It's really normal to have short naps until 4 to 6 months (sometimes longer) so I would focus on the wake windows more than the length. You can work on length later. And it's okay if you rock, cuddle, or feed him to sleep. :)

At 4 months, a typical wake window is 75-105 minutes. He may be ready for his first nap as early as 1 hour after he wakes for the day. I would look more around the 60-90 minute mark and watch for the common sleep signs. It's the best way to learn the wake window. Just spend a week doing that. It truly can make a huge difference. I've done a whole 40-minute video on it but that's where I would start.

For many, when you nail the wake window, they can fall asleep easily and sometimes just going beyond the wake window by 5 minutes is enough to create a battle. It's an important first step before even contemplating sleep training. With sleep, the most important thing is to find out the cause of the sleep challenge and know what's age-appropriate. Once you understand the cause and address the cause, (overtired, reflux, overstimulated, sensory,... the list is endless), the solution is much easier.

DD1 was formula fed... no sleep training... just slept?! DS2 seems much tricker... EBF

To expect DS2 to sleep like DD1 is wholly unrealistic.

The breastfeeding lobby hate it to be known, but babies formula fed from newborn ususlly are a dream when it comes to sleeping.

My FF child was also sleeping through (12h unbroken) by 3 months. No sleep training required, just slept. Exactly as you say. That's what always having more milk than is needed, every feed, every day, all the time, does.

You simply need to adjust your expectations for your breastfed child. It's different. Not bad different, just different.

FateDestiny,

I mostly notice more of a difference in temperament and other causes such as reflux and silent reflux as opposed to formula vs BF.

With my 3 kids, they were all BF for 12-18 months, 1 had colic & reflux, 1 was fine, and 1 had just reflux. The colic and reflux baby struggled the most by far. I should add that by the time #3 came along I had done so much research on sleep and reflux that I knew exactly what to do to help her sleep better. She still had 2 (dream) feeds a night through 12 months but she needed them for calories and they were the only feeds that she didn't throw up 50% +. :)

Colic isn't a thing. It's just a word for babies crying without an obvious reason (hunger, over tired or pain). Reflux is a thing.

I got a reflux diagnosis and medication for DC4 at about 3 or 4 weeks old. Actually is was just easier for the GP to prescribe gaviscon than go into the in-depth reasons my newborn was crying so much.

She just needed a dummy.

As soon as she accepted the dummy (which was not easily done, unlike my other three children) at 7 weeks, she was fine. She never had reflux. But I could have easily justified her upset with unspecified colic or "diagnosed" reflux. It was in fact neither.

Her crying was completely unnecessarily medisised with a reflux diagnosis.

I often wonder how many other reflux cases are similar to my experience.

Don't worry Fate...expectations are lowered and I'm ok with it now lol! Just working on trying to improve things 😉 😴
I do feel like formula fed babies seem to sleep better...however it did not go down well at my local breast feeding group when I dared to ask whether some formula before bed might help DS sleep 🙈....I've not been invited back since 😂😂
I think you're right...I'm actually a paediatric nurse (no nothing about baby sleep!) and reflux is very easily diagnosed with very little clinical symptoms other than an unsettled baby...which as we know could be caused by many things. That's not to say it doesn't exist tho & I'm not saying that all of the diagnoses are incorrect, but I hear what you are saying.
...I could be in trouble tonight...it's half term here so have DD1 (3) off nursery all day which means baby has had short naps interrupted by toddler and many missed sleep cues resulting in difficulty falling asleep 😩 He's been awake for 3 hours now...currently trying to feed him to sleep whilst toddler is running riot 😝

sleepylambs - can you link to any of your work? (Is that within mn guideline?)
What you say makes lots of sense and I am really struggling with my 4mth old too

I'm guessing it's www.sleepambs.com

Argh typo. Www.sleepylambs.com