Why is my 3.5year old waking so effing early

[ninenicknames]

3:30. Yep 3:30 and he wants to her up.

I have a full days work ahead of me and he wants to get up.

I am ASHAMED that I've just lost my shit.

Help, I can't take another night like this.

Total lone parent

Could he be hungry (maybe keep a small snsck and drink by bed if he wakes). Could he be overtired so try re-introducing a shorter nap time at 1pm/2pm (adjustable by 10 minutes until you find the 'right' amount). A reward chart might work if you have a reward he really wants. We were at our wits end with dc not staying in bed so (after reading countless websites and books) did 'if you stay in your bed, the bedroom door stays open' and 'return to bed in silence' and it eventually worked. Don't worry about toilet training, it will happen when he is ready so leave it until the weather is warmer-cold weather sends kidneys into overdrive so it would be much harder to toilet train in Winter.
And Finally...cut yourself some slack. Your being too hard on yourself, it will get better. Every parent struggles at some point.

Gro clock worked for us from age 2.5. And both kids know they they are not allowed to show their faces out of their rooms before 7am (or before the sun comes up on the gro clock). Takes a while to work though - so if you try something new, then stick at it for a few weeks.... hugs in the meantime.

I sniggered at Paxillin's post as I do the same thing only at bed time. Oh you have lots of energy; can't sleep lets tidy up. Baby wipe the skirting board and then you can hoover. What's that you're tired? Best get off to bed then...

We had success with Sam the Lamb sleep trainer. It's battery operated so they can't turn it off, and there's a fiendish combination of points to press to start it off. It shuts its eyes at bedtime, lights green half an hour before wake up time and then opens its eyes to wake up.

We ambitiously set it for 7am so Sam goes green at 6.30. DD has got quite good at understanding that if she wakes before that she can have a drink of water (not milk, she was getting all her calories overnight at one stage, not eating in the day, then being hungry and waking at night) but has to stay in bed and go back to sleep again. We know when it's 6.30 because an excited little voice starts shouting SAM GONE GREEN! SAM GONE GREEN! but it's much better than the 10pm / 1am / 4am waking cycle we were on before.

If you dropped the nap recently, what did you do about bedtime? Did you bring it forward?

It can be overtiredness (which seems to accumulate) and this can lead to early waking, or at 3.30pm - can be like a night waking.

You may find that DC is tire again by about 5am after a 3.30am wake-up.....

I would bring bedtime forward to very early for a few days to allow a catch up - may still result in a very early wake whilst catching up - but eventually should push back.

I have early wakers.....Ds1 is 12 still up at 6am, DS2 who is 6 has a set wake-up time of 5.30am ...sometimes he goes much earlier than that and it is normally because he is overtired - so bedtime is pulled forward and eventually he resets ...only to 5.30am but we won't change his body clock. DS2 (now) is quiet if he wakes at 5.30am - if he wakes earlier he bed hops - normally into his older brother who is to lazy to take him back to bed. He does it almost without conscious thought.

You have my sympathy. My associate fucked up their work so I was redoing everything until 3am. I hate being this tired.

My kids have at various points done this. I put them back in their bed and tell them its not morning yet. DS is the worst for this. I spent weeks walking him back to bed. I agree with moving bedtime forward. Whenever my kids are not behaving I have found 99% of the time its because they are tired. Mine go down by 7pm for a 6:30am wake up. If you still have problems consider melatonin. We gave it to DS for a period under the supervision of his doctor.

My toddler sleeps with me. It's the only way I can get him to sleep through. I'd probably sleep more soundly alone but it's worth it to get a later start. (6am onwards).

iPad before bed is a really bad habit to get into IMO. Both of mine have had Gro-clocks and they work really well.

Thanks Chick, he turns the gro clock off at the mains 🙈

That sounds incredibly difficult. What time does he go to bed? Are you exhausting him in the day? Are there any other difficulties? ASD for example comes with sleep issues. (Not saying that's what it is, just wondering).

I too am a lone parent. I have two. When my eldest was refusing to sleep (he does have ASD) my very lovely gp seeing I was at wits end, told me to go and get some children's antihistamine and give him one does before bed.

It worked a treat. He then got into a brilliant sleep pattern and has done ever since. He only needed about three nights.

It sounds like you're doing the right things, no engagement, no discussion. When you're a single parent, you have to be really tough otherwise they will run rings around you. Do not negotiate with terrorists!!

Good luck xx

Is it really that abnormal for a 3.5 year old to not be night trained? I know OP's child isn't trained at all but this is a sleep issue we are talking about. Several PPs have brought up toilet training and I'm not sure how much difference that would make to a 3:30 am wake up. Both of my boys were out of nappies for the daytime before they turned 3 but they still needed pull-ups at night for quite a while after that. My older DS (no additional needs) wasn't dry in the mornings until almost 5. I think it's developmental and very difficult to "train," especially if you are using modern nappies/pull-ups that absorb the liquid so the child really can't feel it at all.

So basically OP, don't worry too much about the training thing. Yes it should be on your to-do list but I highly doubt it has any connection to the 3:30 am wake ups. Sort those out first and wait until the weather gets slightly warmer to drop the nappies.

Also, I agree with Supermum about a bit of melatonin but I think she's in the USA. Unfortunately you can only get it here by prescription-- which I think is incredibly silly!

I think that night training has to be played by ear - my 3.5 year old just did it on his own, he was waking up with a dry nappy when he was just before 3, and I think he's had maybe 3 small accidents in the last year (when he refused to wee before bed). Whereas my 6 year old just isn't ready (yes, if he's still not there in a year we'll go to the GP) - it's not his fault, he just can't do it.

If it's daytime training, again, I'm afraid I'm with the mumsnet don't make it hard on yourself crowd - my first we pushed, and wees took years to be reliable. The second we just gently encouraged, and he potty trained himself (I realise character is a big issue here - and clearly the first one has some kind of physical slowness around it)

But on the main subject - my first needed an emergency banana at that age - a nana, a drink, and he'd go back to sleep, he was waking famished. He'd also kick off his covers and get cold. Either he went back to bed with a minimum of fuss, or if I was totally knackered I just pulled him in with me until morning and figure I'd fix that habit later (we have, he's in his room all night these days)

Does he have a night light? If he does try turning it off when you go to bed. My dd had a night light and at first it was a god send but then she started waking at all hours so I started turning it off and she sleeps through (we still have the odd bad night) she is 2.5.
I too am dreading potty training, I've done it twice before with my older dc. I have a very big age gap though (15 years between oldest and youngest) so it's feeling like it's my first time.

I still there any chance that a neighbour is disturbing him, by leaving for work or similar? If so, thick curtains, white noise and shut windows might help.
When my DS1 didn't sleep (hardly ever) and I was a single mum with ME, I used to out a stair gate across his bedroom and the rule was - fine, get up and play, but you stay in your room until I get up. Not ideal, but sometimes needs must.
As for potty training, if he's not ready, I wouldn't stress over it.

Please don't "tough it out". He's 'telling' you he needs something. It's a developmental stage. It's exhausting but it will (eventually) pass.
Try co-sleeping.
Try getting up, a sip of water, go back into night routine (read story etc).
If you co-sleep yawn lots very close to him (It's contagious). Get him cuddled in and warm. Keep your eyes closed (It's sleep time after all).
Get him out for an evening walk before bed time, tire him.
Please don't let him cry or be alone if he doesn't want to be.

We spend out whole adult lives searching for someone to share or bed with. Sometimes kids need that comfort too.

As for toilet training - I used a gentle toilet learning. There was no demands. I just kept asking if he would like to go. I let him 'examine' me & daddy using the toilet. Everyday asking "pants or nappy".
(My son self trained at 2.5years, with gentle learning and exposure to how adults do it. But I firmly believe they will do it when they are ready. Don't stress it.)

At 3.5 he's old enough to understand that it's night time and night time is for sleeping. I don't think there's any harm in him seeing you are cross with him for waking you up while it's still dark so please don't feel bad about it. My DC all knew that I couldn't function without enough sleep and they HAD to stay in their rooms unless they were ill or had a bad dream.

I never had any of the wonderful babies who slept thru the night at 6 weeks old. My oldest DS used to get up at 3am also, he thought it was morning, the lights were on in the lounge, I went in asked what he was doing, playing he said, I told him it was the middle of the night, put him back to bed, and it stopped. When, they were young, (hes nearly 40 now) you were expected to have children toilet trained by 2, so this is alien to me having children nearly twice that age in nappies!

Loves That is right I am in the US. You can buy meltonin over the counter here but our doctor monitored DS while he took it. I highly recommend a trip to the GP. An antihistamine makes them drowsy which gets them to sleep but did nothing to help DS stay asleep all night.

If you are not co-sleeping, I would not start it now as it is a tough habit to break. I would sit him down one day and explain that he is a big boy, and that everyone stays in bed until it is the morning. You know he can do it, and if he does he will get a sticker / other small treat. If he gets up there are no hugs, no chat, no food, and you will just bring him back to bed.
Then you need to be completely consistent for three or four nights. No lights, no chats, no stories, no cuddles. Just back to bed. He will go nuts, but basically he is seeing who will give in first. So you have to stay strong. It is for his benefit as well as your own. If he starts school and isn't sleeping he will struggle.
Is there someone who can come and stay for the first night or two to help you? And I would start on a Friday or Saturday so you have time to chat to him about the "new nighttime" a few times during the day. Light touch, but getting the message home.
I would leave the potty training. One thing at a time.

Also, I agree with Supermum about a bit of melatonin

Isn't phenergen more commonly used over here? I've never done it for sleep but DD1 (11) has it for travel sickness.

Other posters have mentioned using it for sleep, I never had but mine have always slept ok. (I'm not gloating, I am PG now and I'm due a none sleeper)

I'm a HCP (auxiliary not prescribing) and I don't see the harm in an antihistamine with no side effects or addictive property's. I don't think that's a popular view on here though.

Here we go! It's started early, he's yelling his head off that everything is wrong.

Blanket not right
Can't find a teddy
Doesn't want a drink
Doesn't like me
Doesn't want me

The list is endless ......

Sigh

just popping my head in to sympathise!

Although mine is 10 and autistic... he currently thinks being awake from 1-3am is fun, then he's up from 5.

At least now he will stay in his room with a tablet.

I'm afraid when younger i used to just stick them in bed with me with a dvd on and i would snooze while they watched!

nine it sounds rough

Has anyone on this thread actually used phenergan short term and did it work?

At 3.5 and consistent waking I would be tempted to give it a go.

DD tries to get up every now and then at 6 but I won't have it. I whisper, tell her it's night time and she has to go back to sleep or 'rest' for another hour. She protests and cries, I firmly insist but make a point of shushing her and reminding her it is night time and we have to be quiet. She does seem to 'get' this. She will cry and then ask me to hold her. I give her a cuddle and hold her and sway for a a bit until she is calm and the she seems to accept it and I say our wee goodnight bit exactly as if it was bedtime and leave. She might squeak and I have to back through but I treat it like bedtime and insist.