A question for GF mums

[Ruddy]

I recently posted re getting DS (7 months) off to sleep and have managed a certain degree of success with this, though not perfect. I have been seriously considering trying the GF way if and when we have another little darling in the future.

I have read most of the book, not thoroughly mind you, and I have a query. I understand totally the theory behind getting babies used to going to sleep on their own. What I wonder is, what happens at the VERY BEGINNING, the first few times you put the baby in its cot for its naps and at night? Before it gets used to the drill. At two weeks or whatever, the baby would be too young for controlled crying, but I can't believe that all babies would just go off to sleep within even five minutes of being put down at the appointed time, even if they are tired. I am v curious so please GF followers please enlighten me. Thank you v much.

Ruddy, I started my dd on the routines at 4 weeks. I can honestly tell you that on day one she slept as per the routine. As time went on there were days when she would cry when put down to sleep. She is my first child and I was not sure about what she was crying for but soon realised that she was either overtired, over stimulated, dirty nappy etc. I know now when I put her down to sleep and she starts crying that it is for a reason. You will be an old hand at it with your second so will not make the mistakes I made. DD is now 5 months and certainly in the last months has only really cried once when put to bed and that is because she was not well. Similarly when she wakes up after a nap and at 7am in the morning she does not cry. She talks and makes little gurgling noises. One thing I must say is do read the book thoroughly and a few times.

Horse, thanks. That makes sense actually. I just remember when ds was very little, as soon as I put him down he would cry but of course I hadn't thought, I just put him down when I wanted to get dressed or something(!), not when I knew he was ready for a nap. I didn't know what was going on at all in those days I must say. ANy other GF mums out there have a similar experience to Horse?

Ruddy, I tried the GF routine for a week when my ds was 10 weeks old and he cried and cried when he was supposed to nap. He also went from waking every 4 hours at night to waking every 2 hours as he wasn't getting enough milk during the day on the routine.
There are lots of mums on these boards who have had a lot of success with GF routines. They didn't work for my son

All I can say from my experience is that DS started the routine at 2 weeks old because he was demand fed, cried non-stop during 1200 and 4AM.... whether he was held, rocked, cuddled,... so in despair I read the book and within 3 or 4 days he was completely on the routine. Of course they get their bad days where they won't nap very long or fall asleep easily but on the whole I found my baby much happier as I felt this was anticipating his needs (litterally).
Some babies really benefit from routines but it doesn't always suit some families and IME,the closer you follow the routine the better they work ("it does what it says on the tin" ) - DD (being a second child) is also on the routine but I am much more flexible as she is a very good sleeper.

Thanks Bluebear and Pupuce. Sorry it didn't work for you Bluebear, I bet you were very disappointed, having decided to give it a try. Pupuce and Horse, I guess I shall just have to believe you both, that with some babies, they just do do it! Thanks a lot.

Ruddy - there are loads more mums on Mumsnet for whom it has worked but I think most of us are tired of answering the same question.... that's not your fault of course.
Mums that I am aware have had success are (please correct me ladies )
Bloss, Bossykate, Enid, Honeybunny, Bayleaf, Jodee, Tinker, Manna, Pena,.... and many more I am sure !

Pupuce, I was trying to be more specific about my query, didn't mean to ask the 'same old question'! I wanted to know very specifically about the first few times you lay a young baby down to sleep once you have decided on the routine. It's great very first nap time for instance. That's what I meant. But still thanks for answering anyway.

The reason I didn't answer this one is because I can't remember! I started GF when dd was 5/6 weeks and I think I did leave her to cry, esp at night, but never for long - I was lucky, she loved sleeping and only got very upset when she was too tired. She always seemed grateful to go to bed!

It does seem harsh to leave a tiny baby crying - my second is due in October and I can't believe I'll be able to leave him/her to cry for very long. Mind you, its amazing what you can do after a few nights of sleep deprivation

I started ds on gf at week 3. The first two weeks, and indeed for the next couple of weeks after, we held him until he was in 'zombie mode' (eyes lolling in back of head etc), marching round the house with him until we put him down. He always went to sleep when we put him down, because he had been awake 2hrs and was sleepy, being woken and fed as per routine (something I found invaluable in the routine). What we did that was silly was not trust the routine so really hold him until he was asleep before putting him down. Consequently, at 12 weeks when he was ready to sleep through he still woke once in the night, when he came into light sleep around 5am, but couldn't get himself back to sleep. I spoke to Gina, because I honestly couldn't see what I was doing wrong because he had the routine perfectly other wise. She asked me a few questions, identified my mistake, advised me to really make an effort to put him down 'drowsy but awake' and within 2 days he was settling himself in the night. After a few more days he didn't even grumble when he woke (if he woke). So what I suppose I'm saying is if you do do it, trust it. She may not explain everything thoroughly, but there is more complex reasoning behind her fairly simplistic writing style!

Hi
We started on week 5 and I thought to myself that I'd give it a fortnight ( At the time I thought GF was mad, a sort of Margaret Thatcher of childcare but I was REALLY keen to get dd to sleep in the evenign as she cried pretty much constantly until 10 or 11pm)
She fitted the sleeps more or less from day 1 - and slept from 7pm that night and has done ever since!
Am now much politer about Gina!

Ruddy - I think that none of us would let a small baby cry for more than a minute or so (if one was otherwise engaged!)... so when you start the routine you dont start like a military training !!! It takes a few days. With small babies I found it hard to keep them awake as long as it stated in the book so they went to bed earlier but slowly it became very easy for everyone involved.

Would like to revive this thread, as like Ruddy (the orig. poster) I need some advice about how to handle the 'putting baby down to nap' thing.
DS2 is now almost 2 months and has been semi-following a GF timetable (seems to be 8 am -to 8pm rather than 7-7). He's still sleeping in bed with me between 12 - 8 am, and feeding at least once, often twice in that time. However we've really screwed up the sleeping thing, as he tends to have his naps in multitude of places - car seat, bouncy chair, my lap after feeding, in the sling with dh. I really feel we're not helping him understand the 'going to sleep' thing, but I've avoided the issue up to now as I felt he was so tiny I wanted him near us. But dh & I have decided that we want to reclaim our evening together and 'sow the seeds' for a good routine later, and from this weekend we'll 'put him down' to sleep in his cot (in our bedroom) after 7pm & 10/11pm feeds. Only problem is all my experience so far is that he WILL NOT settle except when being held, and yet if we put him in his cot fully asleep he will simply cry when he realises (often after just 5 mins!). How did everyone else handle this - will he 'get used' to his cot if he keeps waking up in it? Is there any point in picking him up to resettle (takes 20-30 mins)for him to wake up again after 5?? How can I help him 'learn' that his cot is for sleeping in? I'm just SO not looking forward to this, but at the same time think we need to 'bite the bullet'. How long in your experiences will it take?

Mo2
We followed Gina from day 1 - sort of. DD would also not go to sleep in her cot to start off with. 1 thing I found very useful but which isn't pure GF was to have her play in her cot when she was awake. I would lie her in it pretty much from after the morning feed until the 9am nap. She has a mobile and a big mirror (best thing I ever bought) in there. I would sit with her and play most of the time, but would occasionally go out of the room. She got so used to being happy in her cot that eventually I could leave her there from 8.45 on and she would just fall asleep by herself. I think if you are serious about doing this you really need to put her in her cot for all sleeps except maybe the afternoon nap. It's the only way for her to get properly used to it. I would try to put ds down drowsy at the specified time, but stay with him until he falls asleep at first. If necessary keep your arms on him whilst he's in teh cot - this may help to provide reassurance.

Good luck.

I agree with Prufrock that it is important that ds is used the the cot apart from being put in it at night - at the very least he should have one or more of his daytime sleeps in it - and possible a play time ( although I appreciate that at 2 months he isn't doing much playing). Does he like being swaddled? GF suggests it and my dd settled much better if wrapped securely for the first few months.
You probably won't know how he will react until you've tried it - but do give it a whirl - I discovered GF at about 6 weeks and got my evenings back - Highly recommended!

i never co slept, but ds was swaddled and in a moses basket in our room until 5 weeks, then in a moses basket in his cot for 1 week, then in his cot with guardian angel (bolster things round his sides to make him feel secure & help him not to roll over - fab) at 6 weeks, still swaddled. He didn't even notice when we moved him, so have courage. However, I would say that having him co sleeping so far is not great if you want to change it now, so how about have him in a basket in your room next to your bed, then gradually move him out? Putting him in a cot after being snuggled up with you will probably freak him out unless you do a gradual weaning process. Imo. start with the daytime naps - nobody feels like a battle at 4am, and he'll still need feeding at night, so you'll never be sure he's not crying because he's hungry. At least in the day he'll be full and tired - more likely to adapt, I'd say. On the bright side, this is a good age to do this. They say introducing things is much easier up to 3 months. Good luck