2.5 and I am so desperate

[MardiGrasss]

All my children have been horrible sleepers. I've been so so strong and followed instructions to the letter. I've never ever given in on any rod for my own back stuff. Never brought them into bed with me (although they've never wanted to either). Sleep trained so by the book. And they still are indescribable. Nobody believes me when I tell them and everyone assumes I'm just 'too soft'.

I am getting so desperate. DD is 2.5 and went through a bout of sleeping through. Lately she has been waking and screaming for up to four hours in a night.

I managed to stop this for a bit by when she woke up telling her I would be checking on her regularly and doing so until she fell asleep. Spacing out the checks. She wouldn't scream but she would just be lying there awake. I'd get to the point where there was an hour between checks and I'd assume she was asleep but I'd just hear a 'mummy are you going to check me'. I cannot fathom how an exhausted child who has been up since 1 can still be lying in silence wide awake at 4am. It's now back to that and also bedtime is a nightmare.

Sorry for long post but need to cover all bases as I know what everyone will say.
She eats really well, has v balanced diet no sugar etc.
She does not have a sleep in the day. I have tried her having one in the day but she a) really doesn't want to and it is sometimes impossible b) makes bedtime even worse.
The room is dimly lit (not pitch black as other DC get scared. Although I have tried her in a pitch black room.
Her room is not noisy
She doesn't watch television before bed (or ever really)
We have a calm bedtime routine

All things I have ever tried I have done with dedication and commitment and done consistently. Have had so much patience.

I am just desperate now for someone to tell me what to do.

Oh you poor thing. At this point I would take her to the GP to get her checked over

Thank you so much for replying. I have been to GP. Went with other DC as well as they were similar when babies but it all levelled out around 1.5 (although still not good more normal to bad IYSWIM). GP always has just shrugged, said I should try sleep training etc.

Oh you poor thing. That sounds flipping awful. DD1 was a horrendous sleeper. She grew out of it once she was 3.5 #thankfuck.

in retrospect I wish I'd had her checked for allergies via a GP referral. DD2 has cows milk allergy and apparently it can run in families but they often grow out of it at 3ish. Have you had your DD checked? Has GP checked her ears etc? It sounds like you are doing everything right!

She has slept through the night before, she randomly did the other day with no rhyme or reason. Which makes GP say it's not linked to anything. I just don't know. I feel like I must have made some terrible mistake when she was a baby and made her this way somehow.

Thank you for replies it makes me feel so much better

My DD isn't a great sleeper either though we co sleep. Feel your pain

Get her a kids clock and set the alarm for 7. Tell her you will come check on her when the alarm goes off.

And if she can stay quiet til then a surprise of her choice awaits. .
And thats behaviour modification not black mail. ....

What time is her bedtime?
Is she worn out going to bed or still full of beans?
Loads of outdoors and exercise?
I feel your pain, had 3 of them.

Have you had a check with the health visitor recently?
Cam she come in with you? Just till you both feel awake again

You've tried sleep training - have you tried keeping her close and reassured at night? Worth a try at this stage! Try sleeping in her room or bring her into yours.
What is happening before she wakes up? Is her room too hot -too cold? Is her bed comfy?
Does she have any other things wrong?

Ps I'd just put her in bed next to you - give her a big cuddle, tell her you love her and you'll be there all night and see if she can sleep thro or at least not cry all night

SO much outdoors and exercise. Honestly honestly I cannot stress enough how much it is not that she is not stimulated/tired out enough in the day.

Bedtime is seven.

Have a gro clock which was amazing for getting older DCs to wait until after 6 (had it over a year and it hasn't actually changed their sleep but it means they lie awake from 5.30ish and don't get out of bed til 6.20).

Had no luck with reward charts/offers of rewards.

Yes have tried keeping her reassured doing a keeping on checking thing. At first was literally going in every two minutes to show her that I was always still just a second away.

I have tried twice to sleep her in my bed. She was quiet but awake just tossing and turning for three hours.

Have you seen the health visitor? They might be able to help? Must be so frustrating.

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that maybe she's a shit sleeper because she's a shit sleeper. Both of mine were and the only 'cure' is time. Try not to think about what will happen in six days, weeks or months but just do what you have to do to get thru each night. If she needs you to lie with her, check on her whatever then do it. She will get there and she won't need it forever
Sorry, it does get better and they don't do it forever. It is bloody tough though x

Would HV say anything diffeeent to GP? I generally hate HVs because I've met some bad ones but maybe I'm wrong.

I would agree with you elvis but my big problem with it is that she is just so tired. Sometimes she gets five hours and not in a row. I want so much to teach her how to sleep for her own sake (obviously as well as mine). She's so miserable in the day and I spend a lot of time worrying about how she can possibly be surviving on such little sleep.

This will be massively going against the grain and possibly met with huge protest against it but have you tried conditioning? In this instance it would be massively positive for her and for you. Positive reinforcement is the best way to do it, no negativity at all. There's lots of info online about it. So you constantly reward her every time she makes any progress. Get a few sand timers with different lengths of time. So 10 mins, 20 mins, 30 mins and so forth. Every time she manages to last as long as the sand timer (with increasing increments when you've cracked each one) she gets a reward. Whether that's a story read to her or whatever, but it needs to be instant gratification. They don't understand "tomorrow you'll get x, y or z" at that age. Good luck!

Threadworms? Apparently can be super painful if they get into the urethra.

Can you talk me through the positive reinforcement? goosey how does that work at night? Surely immediate rewards at 1am are difficult to do?

Positive reinforcement is literally just rewarding the behaviour you want to enforce. Instant gratification is best for kids. It will be hard at 1am definitely, but it shouldn't take long for your dc to learn that when she does as she's supposed to with sleep she gets rewarded. You'll have a shit couple of weeks when you'll have to reward at 1am, it will be tiring but within a couple of weeks it should teach her to sleep much better. Worth it in the long run.
So I would get your timer, when she wakes tell her you're going to turn the timer on/flip the sand timer and when all the sand is gone if she's stayed calm and quiet you'll come back and use whichever reward you choose. Then make the time that she has to stay calm and quiet for longer. That might mean going back every 20 mins for a week or you might be able to progress quicker. The aim is that you'll be able to stretch the time to a reasonable wake up time in the morning. Your reward can be anything, a story, a snuggle, a song. The idea is that is she's calm and quiet she's not stressing herself (or you) which will make it much easier to nod back off. I've not explained that perfectly, you'll have to excuse my baby brain. Feel free to message me if you want more help. I know how draining, emotionally, mentally and physically having no sleep can be.