3yr old dd - to nap or not to nap?

[Wallace]

We seem to have got into a (bad) routine at the moment with dd, who is 3 next week. If she doesn't have a nap, she is extrememly grumpy, whingy and tired, and quite often falls asleep at 5 or 6. If she does have a nap, it tends to be later in the afternoon. This means she is not tired at bedtime, and keeps ds awake (they share a room).
Any suggestions for her to get enough sleep? And nobody please suggest waking her up from her nap, because she turns into a demon child if you try this...
Also, must mention, she doesn't nap in her bed, but will fall asleep in the pushchair or car.

DS is 2yrs2m and used to always have a sleep but I found on the odd occasion he missed it that he would go down at 7pm and sleep through til 8.45am!!

BLISS!!

However, if he does have a nap it is for one hour from 1.30-2.30pm and no later as I need him to go to bed at 7.30pm. He is a grump when he is woken but I just deal with it. HTH

Wallace - same with my dd ( except she's an only child) She has had her nap the past 3 days as normal but her bedtime or the actual time that she is falling asleep in her own bed is 9:30 or 10. I feel she still needs a nap - just have to figure out how to have it earlier in the day.

Sorry I have no answers - but will check back to see if anyone else does!

No real advice - I have had the same problem with my ds (aged 3.5). I have now resorted to not taking him out in the car in the afternoon, well when possible!! Any shopping, etc I do on my own in the morning when he's at nursery. If I let him go to sleep, he's up till all hours, but keep him awake and he's asleep at 7.30 latest and doesn't wake until 7ish. I'm currently keeping him awake with a colouring book and he's about to be bathed, then he'll be straight to bed. This afternoon, he looked like he was starting to nod off, so we went to play outside, anything to distract him from his tiredness. Yes, by teatime, he's usually grumpy but I do my best to ignore it... anything is better than being up and down the stairs at 10pm!!!HTH

When ds went through a phase of refusing to nap, though he clearly needed to, I put a CD player in his room and told him that he didn't have to go to sleep, but could just lie quietly and listen to the music (Brahms, Rachmaninov, that sort of thing). He always fell asleep.

Unfortunately I can't think of any way you could use this 'quiet distraction' technique in the buggy!

I've experienced this same problem Wallace but luckily we found that as long as we could get to tea time, DS would then perk up eneough with some food in hsi tummy and be fine until bedtime. It just means that if I think he's tired in the afternoon and will fall asleep I have to not go out in the car or pushchair (or sing very loudly to him while he's in the car!!), either stay at home or have DS walk so that he stays awake.
DS is also very grumpy when he wakes but not if it's after only about 15 mins, then he seems to have had enough snooze to be happy but not so much that he's in a deep "pleae dont wake me" sleep.
Could you try letting her have just 15 mins and having her favourite toy or soemthing to offer her when she wakes?

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Thanks for everyone's help. I have been giving her a quiet time after lunch, and this seems to give her just enough energy to get through the day...most days anyway!