Safe for baby to sleep tummy down on my chest?

[Sophia1984]

Hi everyone,
I'm very paranoid about making sure 3 month old DS sleeps safely. He sleeps in a cot next to our bed at night and at the minute naps on either my or DP's chest during day and early evening. When he does this he is tummy down with face to the side and up. Is this safe? Or does 'back to sleep' apply here? We never have him like this if there is a risk of us falling asleep. Similarly, when he is sleeping in the sling, he is also technically 'on his stomach'.. am I overthinking this?

I would avoid this. You could fall asleep, the baby could roll off you onto the floor or get wedged in soft cushions. You'll also struggle getting the baby to sleep in the future

Oh FFS.

You are over thinking it, it's understandable,, but you don't need to worry.

Ops posted early. I used to nurse in south Africa, really poor area with no NICU. If the babies were I'll, of even if they were premature, the only care on offer was to lie the babies on their mother's chest. The survival rate was amazing, premature babies did as well with this " kangaroo care " as with incubators and medical intervention in the UK. This had been statistically proven.
That contact time you are giving your little one is really beneficial and important. Don't change a thing.

The NHS guidelines on SIDS are not compulsory. You are unlikely to be put in jail if (God forbid) your baby does die as a result of SIDS. The guidelines exist as a legacy of the sudden deaths of babies, to try and avoid other families having to go through the pain of the death of a baby.

The advice is well published and as many hmm-faces or deliberately antagonistic posts will change the facts.

To make an informed decision based on the facts is quite different from making a decision without realising/accepting the risks.

research used by the NHS show it to be unsafe

I don't think The Lullaby Trust are trying to be controversial. Their evidence base is quite measured. It takes time to balance 'real life' situations with ideals. Especially so with cultural factors like cosleeping and swaddling for example.

I cannot understand why anyone has a problem with me providing facts so that an informed decision can be made?

HeCantBeSerious - on the basis that your child did not die, should the NHS stop giving all advise on SIDS? Or just some of it?

Would you feel differently if your baby died?

Your flippent stroppy-faces seem to completely forget the reason behind this research.

Sophia1984 - I'm sorry to derail your thread with such deep discussion. What mums do all the time is make decisions on risk. This is no different. You dont have to remove all possible and potential risk to your child in every capacity (in fact this would be inpossible). However if course any reasonable person would prefer to make an informed decision knowing the research, rather than a decision based on ignorance of the facts.

As long as you know the facts and guidelines, your attitude to risk management is entirely personal. Just like that of every other individual on this thread.

HeCantBeSerious - on the basis that your child did not die, should the NHS stop giving all advise on SIDS? Or just some of it?

SIDS is infant death without identifiable cause. Suffocation has a very identifiable cause. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.

I haven't been deliberately antagonistic if you are referring to me FATE.

You said some of the time a baby is asleep they will be cuddled. Given that you stated the cuddling described in the OP is unsafe, I asked for a description of safe cuddling which you have refused to elaborate on.

HeCantBeSerious

The causes of death on SIDS is very well known and highly researched. It is by no means unexplained. Sudden Infant Death is not unexplained, it is without warning.

Your nisinformation on this important matter is not helpful. SIDS deaths will include, among other things, breathing restriction due to blankets, suffocation due to trapping, over heating, poorly regulated breeding

...and several other sudden and unexpected causes of death in an otherwise healthy (and sometimes not) baby.

Batteriesallgone - I'll say it again to you to be clear. I have not said cuddling a baby is unsafe. I have explained SIDS recommendations.

Batteriesallgone - should the SIDS research and advice not exist? SIDs recommendations are that the safest place for baby to sleep is in thier cot. And lots of very young newborn babies sleep 16-20h a day. Weather you like that or not makes no difference to the fact.

I have given very little opinion on the facts. You have. Opinion is fine, everyone manages risk differently. That includes you. It includes me. It includes the OP

SIDs recommendations are that the safest place for baby to sleep is in thier cot

Unless the cot is in a different room.

The vast majority of cases where babies have been suffocated by their parents have happened due to accidental bed sharing. If you plan to bedshare, and follow the guidelines then there's very little likelihood of suffocation and plenty of benefits for mother and baby.

I understand the statistics, but I don't think it's fair to include suffocation by a parent in the SIDS classification. There's plenty of advice that comes about due to fear of being sued by health professionals.

I don't think it's fair to include suffocation by a parent in the SIDS classification

You may well think it not fair. That doesn't change the facts, research or recommendations.

For what it's worth the Lullaby Trust research does take a lot of time to explain the different risks between unplanned and planned cosleeping, bed and sofa sleeping. The outcomes (in terms of SIDS risk) are very different. At no point have I suggested otherwise.

Your projection and hmm-faces are not helpful here HeCantBeSerious. SIDS involves the death of a baby. You can't get much more serious than that.

Safe sleeping does not include baby sleeping tummy down on the parents chest. People still do this when they know and understand the risks and make an informed decision on the risks.

Pretending there are no risks when a poster asks, "When he does this he is tummy down with face to the side and up. Is this safe? Or does 'back to sleep' apply here?" is hardly responsible.

The risk is only there if you fall asleep. Otherwise the chest to chest position is very very good for the baby's temperature, breathing and heartbeat regulation. Virtually every parent will let their baby sleep on them at some point, so the sensible thing is to explain the safest way to do it. I.e. Not if you're sleepy, best if there's someone else in the room to keep an eye on you, make sure there's nothing restricting the baby's breathing.

My DS was born in the UK and new DD in the Netherlands. We were horrified by how different the advice is here (i.e. using a form of hot water bottle in the crib, no advice to sleep in the same room for six months). We were convinced the Netherlands would have much higher SIDs rates but looked up the statistics a few days ago and they're one of the lowest in the world. One thing they do which isn't suggested in the UK is regularly take the baby's temp and adjust clothing, blankets, hot water bottle to suit.

I let DS (2mo) sleep on my chest and I'm not going to lie, I even put him to sleep in his cot on his tummy and have done since he was a few weeks old. He suffers with reflux and just will not sleep any other way. He has amazing head control and has done since birth, I have a breathing and heart beat monitor and he sleeps with a dummy (which hv said was also recommended as helps keep the airway open). I'm fully aware it is not recommended and having done a lot of research around this I know the risks but have still made the decision to let him sleep this way as IMO there's a higher risk of him choking on his own sick in his sleep.

HeCantBeSerious I did exactly the same.

I didn't say there were no risks.

Virtually every parent will let their baby sleep on them at some point, so the sensible thing is to explain the safest way to do it. I.e. Not if you're sleepy, best if there's someone else in the room to keep an eye on you, make sure there's nothing restricting the baby's breathing

Very measured and sensible advice SolomanDaisy.

I agree that virtually all parents do this. I'd also hazard a guess that a large very large proportion (all?) of parents knowingly don't follow SIDS recommendations down to the last word.

A good example of this would be dummy use. Dummy use is a known and researched factor that decreases a baby's risk of SIDS. But this fact had to be balanced against NHS dentistry advice and "Breast is Best" policy. It's all about managing risks, not removing them completely.

So while lots of parents would consider tummy down sleeping a risk to far, many will not. Lots will consider sofa sleeping a no-no because of the risk of falling asleep yourself, others will consider this a risk they will manage.

For op/anyone to make an informed decision on if they will leave baby sleeping face-down on their chest, while sitting on the sofa, every time baby sleeps - they need the hard facts in order to make that judgment. "I did it and my baby did not die" isn't the world's greatest of answer in the circumstances.

Then SIDS risk aside, there are other parenting ethos' that wouldn't advocate holding the baby all the time they sleep. But that's a whole different issue to what the op asked.

I am just trying to establish safe vs unsafe cuddling because I'm confused.

Of course SIDS research should exist! I'm just trying to understand it a little better I don't understand why that is so awful.

You're entitled not to answer my question - maybe you don't know. I provided information and links to the best of my knowledge but I only really know about bedsharing and sling sleeping. I had never considered whether cuddling carried risks because it was so instinctual I never questioned myself.

I am trying to educate myself so if I have another child I will know the issues. Report me if you think I'm trolling but I can't see what is wrong with my posts.

My baby would not sleep in his cot at all. I was desperate to follow SIDS advice to the letter but he just wouldn't cooperate. He still sleeps really badly at 9 months and I've had a huge amount of help from HVs. 9 months of hardly any sleep has pretty much broken me.

You are reducing the SIDS risk hugely by having her that close to you and hearing her breathing.

I'm a huge supporter of babies only sleeping on their backs but me and many of the midwives I know all agree as long as it's done safely the baby sleeping on your chest is absolutely fine.

And sids and suffocation are very different things. I wish people would make that distinction. If you fall asleep and smother your baby that is not sids.

I am just trying to establish safe vs unsafe cuddling because I'm confused.

For the third time to save your confusion Batteriesallgone, it is not unsafe to cuddle a baby.

Best place to educate yourself is the Lullaby Trust website.

Thanks for your input everyone. It has actually been really useful as it has made me realise I can't remove every single risk from baby's life. I could choose to immediately put him on his back in the cot as soon as he finishes feeding, but then I would miss out on the lovely sleepy cuddles we have and the bonding/attachment that results (and he also wouldn't get much sleep!)

I therefore have to weight up the risk factors with my comfort level and come to a compromise. I follow all other safe sleep advice, probably more so than some when it comes to things like never leaving him sleeping alone in a room. I do accept the point that people saying 'I do that and it's fine' isn't a guarantee of safety - I was looking for more official Health Professional guidance as I hadn't seen this referred to anywhere.

Lolling at the idea that new babies sleep 16-20 hours a day. Wish someone had told mine!
He had reflux and wouldn't sleep much on his back. In the end I would lie on the bed, wearing a dressing gown (so no duvet) wrap a blanket around the both of us, and sleep at least half the night like that.
You sleep much more lightly with a newborn, and are very aware of their every movement.
I also fed lying down on the bed, and we would both fall and sleep. I told the (very experienced) visiting midwife this because I was worried and she said " that's fine as long as you have never been drinking or taken drugs".
Not advocating this, but I was hallucinating with sleep deprivation at that point, so I did what I had to do.
I know you are asking about when you are awake though. I would find it hard to believe a baby sleeping on your chest when you are awake is a problem.

Hey, my boys sleeps on his tummy and has done since birth, he was premature and nurses put his straight in him front in intensive care, I think he's got used to that and wouldn't settle on his back, then he got reflux and would be sick anytime he was on his back... we use the angel care breathing monitor which eases our worries along with the fact he's blabbers all night (his dad sleeps talks constantly) so think he's going to be like his dad. So basically what I am saying is be careful your baby doesn't start to prefer being in there tummy x