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Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

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Original poster

DESPERATE FOR HELP: 4mo always tired & grumpy. My patience is going.

28 replies

jenny260906 · 05/02/2007 21:06

Please help, i'm really struggling with my 4 month old. Here's his routine:

8am wakes up - comes into bed with me and falls back to sleep til approx 9am
Get up and first feed at 9am
Nap at 10:30 (only for 30mins)
Feed at 1pm
Nap at 2pm (anything from 30mins to 90mins)
Feed at 5pm
Nap at 6pm (for about 30mins)
Feed and bedtime routine starts at 8pm.
Sleep by 9pm.
Wakes at 11pm for feed, then 2am for feed, then 5am for feed then 6:30am (NOT fed, try to get him back to sleep without feeding) then 8am (fed and into my bed). (SO he has a maximum of 3 short naps a day and wakes atleast 4 times during the night)

Basically after his first nap at 10:30am he is grumpy and tired for the rest of the day. I can't get him to nap for longer periods of time. He whines, winges, cries, cries, cries etc etc all day and it's seriously getting me down now.

the only way i can get him to nap in the day is to take him out in the car or in the pram which is so impractical i can't do this every day, i get nothing done and feel absolutely exhausted. I'm beginning to resent him.

Please help. Does he need more naps? how do i get him to nap? how do i make him nap for longer so that he enters the deeper sleep? is his routine wrong?

PLEASE PLEASE HELP US BOTH!

from a very desperate mum of a 4 month old!
x

OP posts:

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docket · 05/02/2007 21:22

Sympathies, that sounds tough.

Can you try and feed him more in the day? Looks like he's feeding every 4 hours in the day and every 3 at night - could you try and swap them round?

That doesn't really address the nap issue though although the amount he is having sounds normal for a 4 month old.

dcb · 05/02/2007 21:23

have you thought about trying to put him to bed earlier? i started to put my dd to bed around 7-7.30 at about 12-14 weeks and grad earlier - 6.30-7 eventually. i found that although she didn't sleep brilliantly overnight i felt better for having the evening "off". then started a dream feed at around 10.30 ish if she hadn't already woken for a feed. she was by no means a great sleeper but i then found that she would sleep a bit better during the day. she could only stay awake for 1.5-2 hrs at that age and i'd try to put her down sooner rather than later once i'd seen sleep cues eg rubbbing eyes etc or staring straight ahead. it meant she usu had 4 naps per day but i felt better for it and i'm sure she did. i didn't manage to get her to nap at the "traditional times"

just remember - your routine is not wrong - you are doing a great job at a v difficult time. don't worry about what other people's "angel" babies are doing or if you aren't able to follow the book routines. you will find your own way - nothing is wrong.

also have you tried feeding more freq during the day? it might stop him from wanting feeding at night. is he bf or ff?

my dd only really started to sleep in her cot at around 4 months - just kept trying it until it worked. at first would aim to get just 1 nap per day in the cot - the first of the day- as this was easiest the grad the others

i might not be the best person to advise as we seem to just have muddled through - routines didn't seem to happen for us despite my best efforts hth

Original poster

jenny260906 · 05/02/2007 21:30

Thanks for your advice.

He is purely BF.
I know exactly when he is tired (he's very obvious with his cues!) but i can't get him to sleep easily for naps. If i don't take him out in the pram/car and just put him in his moses basket he cries/screams like a mad man then gets hot, red, sweaty and really worked up. Do i leave him to 'cry it out' or just keep going out in the car/pram to get him to sleep?
...this parenting lark is so damn difficult isn't it!!!

thanks!

OP posts:

Original poster

jenny260906 · 05/02/2007 21:34

Also what is a 'dream feed' - how does it work? and how is it done? A lot of people seem to do them but i have no idea of their use etc!

thanks again.

OP posts:

Waswondering · 05/02/2007 21:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fizzbuzz · 05/02/2007 21:55

I think it will get easier as he gets older IMO.

I'm not sure he is getting enough sleep, I thought 4-6 hours was how much they needed in the day.

He is waking up at end of sleep cycles, rather than when he has had enough kip.

Baby Whisperer recommends waiting outside bedroom about 5 mins before you would expect him to wake up, and then go in and settle immediately at FIRST ign of a murmer. Also patting stuff works.

It will get easier, dd was like this, and now sleeps for ages. (She says when ds has been refusing to sleep all day!)

dcb · 05/02/2007 21:59

agree with fizzbuzz - might need more sleep during day (not v helpful i know if you're struggling with thi). we used to give dream feed of expressed breast milk - dh used to give. some lo find it easier to take from bottle - less likely to fall asleep

grannycrackers · 05/02/2007 22:12

jenny what really surprised me when i saw your routine was how rarely your ds is feeding. at that age all of mine would feed frequently throughout the day, mainly because they enjoyed it so much. occaisionally (sp?) they'd go for a few hours without feeding but not very often. i'm just going by my own experience 'though, i'm no expert

Original poster

jenny260906 · 05/02/2007 22:22

he was feeding much more frequently than he is now about a week a go. I got desperate so bought a book (!!). I started to sort of copy a routine it suggests in that, which involves feeding less than i used to. Jack feeds fine at these times and doesn't seem to need feeding any more.

I think i used to feed him whenever he whinged, which in hind sight was when he was tired so really i was feeding him when he didnt really need feeding! I just wish he didn't feed quite as often during the night!

going to attempt the dream feed thing for the first time in a bit... can't see it working TBH but will give it a try!

OP posts:

fizzbuzz · 06/02/2007 08:22

Dream feeds are amazing, they don't really wake up, and suck all milk in, whilst they appear to be asleep!

dcb · 06/02/2007 09:02

jenny - let us know how you got on - hope it went well

grannycrackers · 06/02/2007 10:47

hi jenny. here's a few tips that work for me (my ds is 5months old) : the head of the cot is raised about 4 inches, he sleeps at night in a grobag in a dark, quiet room. The only time i try to space out bf is late afternoon/early evening so that he has a really long bf at about 8pm while sitting in the dark watching tv (me not him ) he sleeps til 5, has a feed in bed, then sleeps again til 7. in the day he sleeps with door open so it's still noisy ( but he only sleeps for about 10 minutes or so twice a day, but v well at night, which i prefer.) he bf on demand and a lot of my work is at the computer, so i can feed him then and work. otherwise he sits in his bouncy chair and watches me cooking/cleaning etc. he also has a blanket on the floor with toys/cradle gym where he'll lie for about 5-10 mins, several times a day. most of the time he likes to be played with and carried around.

poss reasons for grumpiness - teething pain. also growth spurt might make him very hungry

my ds is my last baby so i'm trying to enjoy him before he grows up. i know in just another couple of months he'll be starting to get more independent and perhaps i "baby" him too much

Original poster

jenny260906 · 06/02/2007 10:51

well, hhhmmmm.... attempted dream feed at 10:30pm (he went to sleep at 8:30pm) and he fed straight away but then ping eyes open, wide awake!

Took a few minutes to get him back to sleep. Then he woke up at about 12:30pm to be fed.
After this he woke again at 2:30 - but i didn't feed him, just gently stroked his head and after a bit of wimpering went back to sleep.
Then he woke at 4:15, then 5:50 then 7:00 (came into my bed at this time) then got up at 8:30am.

So we are still at square one. I'm shattered, lose my temper easily, snap at my husband for no apparent reason etc etc!

Oh i Neeeeeeed sleep!

OP posts:

Original poster

jenny260906 · 06/02/2007 10:56

grannycrackers....

thanks for your tips.
My ds sleeps in a grobag too which is a god send as he is a real wriggler so blankets would never stay on!

How do you get your ds to nap in the day? do you just put him in his bed and he goes to sleep by himself? I have just had to take mine out in the car to get him to sleep (has been a sleep for about 45 mins now). I can't do this everyday it's crazy!

Could you give me a brief outline of your 'routine' as im interested in how often other babies sleep and feed? (I know all babies are different but it gives me an idea)

Many thanks

OP posts:

Mumpbump · 06/02/2007 11:02

Ds never settled well for day-time naps, but was basically okay overnight. I think you've done really well to get your ds back to sleep without a feed. Keep going at this and, after a few nights, you'll probably get a good block of sleep which will help you...

With his napping, I suggest doing a google search for a technique called "controlled comforting" which we used for ds. It was hard work, but not as distressing (imo) as controlled crying and suitable for use from birth. It can take anything from 3 days to a month (for us) to kick in. Ds still cries when he is put down to sleep during the day, but rarely for more than 5-10 minutes... HTH.

cruisemum1 · 06/02/2007 12:07

I defo second those who say your lo probably needs more feeds during the day and longer naps. The nap thing is a nightmare and my ds 5mths is only just able to go longer than 30/45mins at a go in the past month or so. He now averages around 3.5hrs worth of naps a day which makes him much more sociable. I tried for a fortnight to get him to nap in his cot but he just screams and I cannot bear it. Now we go out or I put him in his buggy and wheel him around the house . I know this is not ideal and I would love him to nap in his lovely cot in his lovely nursery but he just won't. The nights are horrendous aren't they. If you check out 'Sleep is for the Weak' you will find loads of us there looking for a solution!
Mumpbump - I will look up hte controlled comforting thing. I tried to do a version of this on Sunday night and nearly had a nervous breakdown - lo got so distressed that it nearly killed me .

Mumpbump · 06/02/2007 12:50

Cruisemum - controlled comforting is not entirely stress free, but ds generally settled within 10 minutes. If he got really distressed (once or twice) because he had been wound up (usually by dh/dsc), I suckled him to sleep. I think it probably took a bit longer to get him there, but it did work in the end. (I think it actually worked within a week because I was being very good about implementing it, but we then went away on holiday which blew it out of the water!! Bad timing or what?)

fizzbuzz · 06/02/2007 13:58

i think it is an age thing, that waking up when dreamfeeding. Dd did, but when she got older she stopped really waking up for it.

I think it is all age related, and will pass in time. Not what you want to hear, but true unfortunately!

saffymum · 06/02/2007 14:08

HI, you must be exhausted. I totally understand, my son didn't sleep will till 4 months. I was thinking that maybe your ds is really hungry at night because you are so tired by the time the night time milk goes maybe its not as filling because your body is so tired? Look at the routine of how many feeds at night and compare to the day when you feed less regularly it looks like there might not be much milk at night. Don't shoot me for the suggestion, but what about giving yourself a break and giving him a formula feed before bed and let your DH do the 2am one? I will bet you he is hungry and needs more in his tummy to keep him full. Just a suggestion, I am all for BF but sometimes we all need a bit of help?

cruisemum1 · 06/02/2007 15:05

mumpbump - just checked out controlled comforting and it is the same as controlled crying. not recommended till 6mths. if ds is still waking at night/taking ages to settle at bedtime, i might give it a whirl.

Mumpbump · 06/02/2007 15:09

Cruisemum - how odd. Did you come across this website? It has newborn to 6 months about halfway down and sets out the method we followed.

time to sleep

tibsy · 06/02/2007 15:12

jenny, sounds a lot like my lo, shes 5months and a bit now and completely changed. an absolute delight, so take heart have recently started weaning, not that i am recommending you do that at 4 months but maybe he does need more milk. i seemed to feed my dd nonstop at some points, growth spurts, teething symptoms (although still no teeth!) and she was more content then. would have loved to have had a routine but dd had other ideas!!! sympathies also about the naps, mine too will only nap for 30 mins unless i lay down with her and stick my boob in her mouth when she wakes i still do that if i'm desperately tired during the day. we can sometimes have 1 1/2 hours then. don't beat yourself up over feeling resentful, i used to look at other babies at mums and tots groups and think, why is mine the only grizzly one? doesnt mean you love them any less and just think, one day, they'll be another mum in your position and you'll be able to offer the advice or sympathy big hugs

tibsy · 06/02/2007 15:34

p.s meant to say, mine still not sleeping through, but at least she's happier!!

cruisemum1 · 06/02/2007 15:57

mumpbump No, that's not the site I visited earlier but I have copied/pasted that onto word and will look later when I have time .So, thanks for that.

youngmum21 · 06/02/2007 21:25

jenny- maybe try getting a nap routine going aswell it helps me, dd use to sleep in her bouncy chair now she always goes sleep in her cot, maybe get a musical thing so when he starts getting tired take him up stairs put on the music and have a bit of a cuddle and dance round the room with him once his eyes start to close try putting him down,if h starts again pick him up and do it again i did that with my dd and most of the time i can put her down with no music and live her to fall asleep on her own xx hth

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