I just need to say this, doubt there is a solution

[SleepFreeZone]

I have one DS who is 3, never had any issues with him sleeping as a baby, sleeps through every night now. Marvellous.

DS2 is 6 months. He doesn't like sleep. As a tiny baby he wouldn't nap in the day. Now he does nap in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon, otherwise he likes to catnap on boob. All of that is fine, it's night time that is fucking me up.

He is EBF, good weight, thriving in fact. He hates his co sleeping cot. I can sometimes get him in it initially when he is in a deep sleep, but after his first wake he will scream if I try and put him back so he ends up vo sleeping with me. This is not ideal at all for me but at least I was getting some sleep so we were managing. Roll on last night and he decides after waking me every two hours, they at 3.47am he will practice his crawling and starts throwing himself around the bed blowing raspberries and acting like a crazy boy.

This is where everything unraveled as he was unsafe doing that in the bed. So I put him in his cot and he screamed. So I went into the other room where DP sleeps and tried to sleep in there while DS grizzled, nope, couldn't do it as I could hear him winding himself up into a state. Went back into the room and cuddled him, fed him again, put him back in his cot, put ear plugs in (my ears!) and laid there. He then SCREAMED AND SCREAMED. So I cuddled him again, tried him back in the bed with me and once again he started motoring around and practicing his crawling.

By this stage I had had a few hours sleep only and was so worried about looking after them both today and driving, so I put him back in his cot, took my duvet and pillow downstairs and fell asleep on the sofa. I went up an hour later and he was asleep and I was able to get another hour in bed.

In all I must have been woken up about 6-8 times and probably got 4-5 hours interrupted sleep. This has been going on for 6 months now and I'm not sure what I should be doing. The decorator is coming to do his room mid September, so he is meant to be going in his own cot away from me in a months time. All well and good except he will surely wake the house up with the screaming? My main aim seems to be to try and facilitate sleep in the house for everyone bar myself. It's a nightmare.

I'm assuming he can roll by himself now?
Have you tried putting him down on his front rather than his back? My Dd has always been a tummy sleeper, but was really really unsettled on her back before I figured it out! To me, sleeping flat on the back is a very unnatural, uncomfortable position for anyone to sleep in

I was trying to keep him in his back in the past but after breaking down to the HV she said as he could roll now there was no reason to. So he tends to sleep however he pleases, sometimes front and sometimes back.

He can roll both ways and is starting to crawl now. He also has 4 teeth fully through and two more about to break so he has been doing a lot of things much earlier than DS1.

Hmm, could he possibly be overtired by the time he's going to bed?
How long is he awake between naps (or attempted naps)?

It's a good question and there is no clear answer as he has been really difficult to get into a routine. He will sleep in the car, so a day where we are out and about will be totally different to a day spent at home.

He won't accept me telling him when to sleep so I have to go by his sleep cues. DS1 used to very often grumble himself to sleep but this one will scream and scream and scream with no let up if I dare to try and put him down for a nap when he has deemed himself not tired 🙄

Generally I tend to feed laying down as he feeds better they way (he often fights on the boob and bites and kicks me). When he is tired he falls asleep after the feed and when he isn't, he doesn't. So I feed to his cries and he sleeps when he wants 😁

Difficult situation then! I guess it's different with your second anyway because he has to fit in to your other child's routine even if it may not suit them at first!!
I would use general rule of thumb though that at 6 months, most babies can only handle about 2.5 hrs of awake time before they need to sleep - even if they aren't showing obvious tired signs ie yawning, rubbing eyes etc because they are very late indicators of tiredness. Maybe try that for a couple of days? Still lay down and let him boob as much as he wants, but do it after he's been awake for 2.5 hrs in the morning and then try to get him down for a nap?

The toddler also likes to scream and shout which wakes the baby up of course 😁 He doesn't mean to but he forgets himself and has a paddy and of course we are all back to square one 🙁

Would you believe an hour after this post was written the baby fell off my bed and we have been down the doctors for a once over. I have been in tears to everyone saying in not coping abs the doctor is going to ring the HV. Hopefully they will come and see me this time as last time I said I wasn't coping they rang me once then didn't bother with any follow ups.

Ok I am going to be tough here. You seriously seriously need to break the falling to sleep habit, get a proper nap routine and put him in his own room.
If it will be too hard then get a sleep consultant in or use this board for advice. But this level of sleep deprivation is really bad for you and him

Oh no OP!! Hope he is ok!!

Hope he is ok OP. And hope you are ok too

IMO this sounds like the textbook situation for sleep training (controlled crying). It's going to involve the baby crying yes but that's better than him getting no proper naps and you being knackered in charge of two littleys. Suspect the HV will advise the same. Do it - it could transform all of your lives.

PS I did CC after I was so tired I nearly dropped DD down the stairs. You will see a lot of anti CC feeling on this thread but safety is more important.

Hiya, well HV hasn't been in touch. That surprises me actually but luckily last night was quite successful! He did wake about three times but otherwise slept in his cot without incident. At 6am he was pretty awake so I took him into DP at that point who took over.

Have to see how tonight goes but by hook or by crook he will be staying in his cot.

Maybe you already started the process the previous night by leaving him to yell in cot? (or maybe he was knackered after the disturbed night!) Good luck tonight - consistency is key!

Thanks minipie.

Well last night wasn't great 😁 Started by me watching the Olympics and not getting to bed till midnight 🙈 Directly I settled he woke up, so I fed him. Then stood up and cuddled him over my shoulder until he went floppy and transferred him to his cot. All good except he most of woken up
Pretty much every 2 hours thereafter. So not much sleep here.

My DP poked his head in at 6am and saw i was asleep and he was rolling around in his cot and plucked him out. I'm ashamed to say about half an hour earlier I had resorted to ear plugs as I was so desperate for sleep. The last thing I want to do is pu ear plugs in but it's also not safe to try and operate on a few hours sleep.

Tonight I will hopefully get to bed at a sensible time.

*except he most have woken up pretty much every 2 hours thereafter

Ah poor you, you must be knackered.

TBH if you are going to stop this cycle you do need to teach him to go to sleep on his own in the cot - not over your shoulder and then transfer.

There is the gentle way of doing this (gradual retreat) or the less gentle but quicker way (controlled crying). Depends what you think you can manage.

What's gradual retreat?

So it's where you start off by helping them to sleep in the usual way (feed/rock/cuddle or whatever), but then very gradually you help them less and less until eventually they are falling asleep on their own in the cot.

For example if you've usually rocked him to sleep up till now then you would change to just holding him while he falls asleep, for a few days till he is ok with that. Then the next few days you would put him in his cot but you would stroke him till he falls asleep. Then next few days you would not stroke but have your hand on him. Then next few days you would just stand by the cot. Then next few days you might stay by the door. Then finally you would cuddle, put him down say night night and go.

Whereas controlled crying you go from feeding/cuddling or whatever, straight to cuddle, night night and go. (And then you pop in every so often to reassure while they cry). No gradual transition iyswim.

Hi OP, I had to stop cosleeping when my boy started crawling, too. He's not a big sleeper - about 9 hours in 24, and nothing will get him to sleep longer, so I feel your pain. Some babies don't sleep much and you cannot force them to.

What I did was basically just start putting him down to sleep in his cot a few feet from my bed. I feed to sleep sitting up in my bed and then when he's floppy asleep I put him in the cot. When he wakes in the night, if he is distressed, I pick him up and check if he needs a change and then feed him to sleep and put him back in the cot. The goal is for the cot to just be where he sleeps, not a scary place where he can't get to mummy. He wakes once for a feed and change most nights, but also wakes several times most nights and wriggles about and gets comfy and goes back to sleep, instead of waking me. Just the same as most adults do, although we rarely remember. No screaming, no spending all night at the milk bar. He does sometimes have bad nights, but mostly they are okay. I think you might need to adjust your expectations to suit this child a bit as they are clearly a very different person to the older sibling, but that doesn't have to mean loads of screaming or totally sleepless nights.