Day /night confusion and late mornings- would GF help?

[ionesmum]

My 13 week-old has always been a night owl (even when I was carrying her she would kick all night and sleep all day. She still would rather be up all night, and sleeps very lightly, but sleeps like a log during the day, particularly the morning. I have taken to sleeping at the same time as her as otherwise I'm too shattered to cope during the night, but life is passing us by and we are missing lots of things that I would love to do. Because she sleeps so much in the day we have limited play and social time and I worry how this will affect her behaviour. I have read Gina Ford's book and would like to try th e routines, but am too tired to start the day at 7, and dd is usually still asleep anyway. (We tried once but she fell asleep again by 8, slept all morning and I was ratty for two days!) Can the routines work if they are started later in the day? We are beginning weaning on the advice of my h.v., and dd sleeps beside our bed in her crib.

ionesmum, I 'did' GF with my dd, we started around 7 weeks. I have to say, IMO, the 'key' is starting your day at the same time each day. And I really would try and start at 7. Yes, this meant that for the first couple of days, I would have to get up at 6.50 after going to sleep at 6! Nightmare But the whole point of doing GF is sticking to the routine. If you decide to do it, read the book thoroughly once or pref. twice, then stick to it to the letter for the first week. Sorry to sound draconian, but if you don't stick to it, IMO there is no point. Of course, you may decide that GF isn't for you, in which case you may have to do sleep training later on.

If your dd sleeps for long periods of time (day or night) then she should be relatively easy to sort out.

You can change the routine to start at 8am, but GF doesn't advise doing this until they have dropped their morning nap at about 12 months.

I remember that keeping dd awake was the hardest part of the whole thing! Can you put your dd on a playmat to kick and roll, what does she enjoy doing when awake?

And finally, are you sure you have to wean her quite yet....?

I'd say that It can work starting later - GF herself says do an 8-8 rather than 7-7 if it suits you better - so why not a 9-9??? as long as you try to stick to the routine within the 12 hours that you're up.
My dd was a bit like yours - not quite so extreme tho - by 5 weeks she had just about got the idea of sleeping more at night but still screamed all evening - till I started gf - and she went to bed at 7pm on the dot and has done ever since ( she's 16 months now)
I cetainly remember in the early days that ddd teneded to fall asleep when she was supposed to be awake - and there was obviously little I could do about it! You can only do your best to fit to the routines as much as you can and see what happens - and if it makes you tired and irritable ( more so than you currently are) then forget it. I'm a great fan because they worked wonders for me - and every time I have had slight problems and have ''tightened up the rouines'' and followed advice to the letter it seems to have improved things - so improbable as her advice sometimes seems ''I'm a believer''!
Good luck!

A baby that sleeps a lot during the day is going to make up for feeds during the night. I can appreciate that you need the sleep during the day but after a catchup of sleep in the morning I wouldn't let her go much longer that 3 hours between feeds during the day to turn around the night time feeding.
I have never done the Gina routine but I would still echo Enid's sentiments about weaning. Babies should really not start solids until 16 weeks but preferably nearer the 6 month mark. Solids alone will not sort out the night time waking and sometimes can actually make it worse with the baby becoming more thirsty. Early weaning can cause health problems in adult life so it is worth persevering for a few weeks longer.

Thanks for the feedback, I think that I will find it easier to try an early start if I am confident that it will work, so it's good to know that it can. Enid, I try to put dd on her playmat but if she is tired she screams until I take her off it! She enjoys watching people and our dog, reading books with me,listening to music and swiping at toys but if she is tired she just cries and there is no point in carrying on or she gets hysterical. I might try to start our day at 8 and see what happens, it might make the transition to a 7 start easier!

With regards feeding, dd has five feeds (6-9 oz) of formula a day. We have done 3 hour feeds, but as that usually results in the fifth one being before 10, dd always wants another late feed. She has resumed a 3a.m. feed, and was waking earlier for her first feed (before falling sound asleep afterwards.) She was born at 42 weeks and currently weighs 12lbs5. I must admit that I wasn't sure about early weaning but was guided by my h.v. So far dd has only had one small feed of baby rice for three days, she is very enthusiastic for it and it has stopped her being so hungry during the night. (even without the night feeds, dd is exceeding GF's recommended amounts for formula) She has also had a wind (farty) problem since she had a cold at 7 weeks, for a while it was a nightmare for her but it has settled a bit now and only happens two or three times a week. This is sorted by laying her on her tummy across my chest, so I am hopeful it will go altogether when she can roll over.

Thanks for all your help. I'll let you know how we get on!

the reason changing the routines to start much later than 8 is not supposed to work is that gf believes that babies have a natural dip midday, and that she found that babies that slept between 12 & 2.30 were more rested than those that slept say 1pm or 1.30pm - 3pm or 3.30pm. So if you start later than 8 it all gets knocked on, so they're going down too late at lunch time to benefit from the midday siesta! a 9am start means an 11 - 12pm 'morning' nap, a 2 - 4pm 'lunchtime' sleep, a short nap at 6 - 6.30pm ish etc. you can see why it wouldn't be great.

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