6 months old and still a shit sleeper

[MYA2016]

I've lurked on these threads since the birth of my first baby 6 months ago.... I'm still here... still wondering why he hates sleep so much.
I don't think I'm even hoping for advice anymore... just a rant.
Goes to bed at 7.30 after the same routine of dinner, bath, massage,in the night garden, book, bottle, take upstairs, lullaby, then the hell begins.
I've stopped bf to sleep at night (was very hit and miss anyway), put him in cot and either shh to sleep or if he is upset we hold him and rock him.
Usually takes 15 mins tops. Goes down easily.
40 mins later will wake. Always try to get him back to sleep without taking out of cot. Rarely works. Will never bf at this point.
And then it continues. Every 40-90 mins till midnight he wakes,crying. He just cannotated get through a sleep cycle.
At midnight he will not be put down. Cries and cries and cries every time his head hits the cot
So we bring him to our bed and some nights he'll sleep and wake once or twice, other nights he'll wake hourly still.
He eats loads and really well in the day, I've tried him on his back and tummy,he won't take a dummy and never has.
Feeling quite trapped as I'd love a break (all day naps have to be in my arms so I feel like I never get time to breathe) however I wouldn't put anyone else through the nights we have
Dh is very supportive of cosleeping and will always get up throughout the night to help, despite having work at 6am but ds will never settle with him.
Hv told me yesterday that when I made the choice to bf, I made the choice to not sleep as you can't have both.
Have enjoyed bf but really feeling like I won't do it again right now with any subsequent dcs .
Rant is over.

[Coconut0il]

In this situation I would just be getting as much sleep as I could and hoping this phase passes soon. I would take it in turns with DP to do shifts with DS2 while the other got a block of sleep. I think accepting you DS is not a good sleeper and finding ways to manage it would be my advice. Agree with previous posters that it is not related to bf and it will get better OP.

[MYA2016]

Thanks all for responding I really appreciate it.

Okay I will definitely try and cut out In the Night Garden. If I'm entirely honest it was just convenient as we eat our tea at that time and it kept him entertained, plus he seems to like it... gets very excited when it starts :( but I'll try anything!

To the poster who said that he isn't having enough sleep.... trust me its not through a lack of trying. Some days he will be exhausted 2 hours after waking but then will only sleep for 20 mins and then is totally wide awake. I get so stressed I take him out in the car / pushchair etc. My husband thinks I'm obsessed with his day naps and I should just chill and night sleep will still be shit regardless .
I guess today will be the test. .. he had a 20 mins nap this morning. I walked him for 2 hours in the pushchair after and he was just happily watching the world go by. I then managed to get him to sleep in the afternoon for 40 mins in the car. So hes had a total of 1 hour sleep in a 12 hour day. He went to sleep at 7.... and hasn't actually woken yet and it's now 11 so maybe he is the opposite and maybe he actually doesn't need as much sleep as most babies.?

I guess we'll find out in the morning.

Sorry I can't remember who suggested what now but whoever suggested sleepyhead, we've recently weaned him out of this as he'd outgrown it and didn't want to buy the bigger one. It never made him sleep through though anyway!

I'm back at work in 4 months so keep thinking "I have time " although it's slipping away far too quickly. I think I will have to do some kind of sleep training within the next few months of no improvement.

We have had his first tooth appear 2 days ago now which I guess will explain this weeks sleep but not the other 6 months haha.

I know he is quite advanced for his age. Was able to roll both ways at 9 weeks old. Has been sitting on his own since he was 4.5 months. Is now commando crawling too. He will play games where I make noises (not words) and he copies and finds himself hilarious. I sometimes just think that he has a busy mind and when he wakes he must be thinking of his next move and not able to just drift back off!

I know I am probably talking utter bollox but this helps me at 3 am when I am on my 8th wake up of the night!

[Jghl1234]

Mine is one still a little get haha

[MYA2016]

Also. ..

The cot is in his own room and so we don't wake him. He's been in there since 5 months and saw a huge improvement for the first 3 nights then it started slipping back. Now he ends up in with us every night at some point.

[Fomalhaut]

We've found that ours is sleeping a tiny tiny bit better after learning to crawl. Not much but just a tiny bit. He seems to have so much energy - I need to tire him out physically and mentally for him to sleep. Lots of time outside. And forcing day naps if I have to. The more they sleep the more they want to.

Definitely no cartoons before bed. It really revs our little one up.

It's tough, it really is. Probably the most useful thing you can do is work out survival strategies. I do evenings and nights as he's bf still and dh works long hours. Dh gets up at five or earlier with him to give me a solid couple of hours kip. This really, really helps.

[Fomalhaut]

Oh yes we had the own room/leave to cry advice from the doc. Pointless and counterproductive for us. They're all individuals- you know your baby best. Ours is a clingy little guy, always has been. When we tried to put him down and leave him he got scared. He was then scared of bed for weeks :( for us, gradual approaches are working better. I let him complain, but always go to crying. We start him in his cot but if he won't resettle he comes in with us. Path of least resistance I suppose, but informed by his personality.
They're all different - a friend has a baby who was anti-cuddles and just wanted to be put down and left to it. My ds is currently stuck to my back.

[Metalhead]

If you've not tried white noise yet I definitely would, it never did anything for DD1 but DD2 loves it! Just be aware that you might need it on quite loud during the day, we can still hear our rain noise through the closed bedroom door...

[FruitCider]

To the poster who said that he isn't having enough sleep.... trust me its not through a lack of trying. Some days he will be exhausted 2 hours after waking but then will only sleep for 20 mins and then is totally wide awake.

20 minute naps is classic in very tired babies. It means they are not falling into deep enough sleep.

[HelenF35]

Here are the timings I used at 6 months. I woke him from these naps if he was still sleeping after they were due to finish

Up 7.00am
Nap 9.15 30/40 mins
Nap 12.30 2 hours
Nap 4.30 20/30 mins Only if last nap was less than an hour
Bed 7.00pm

[Tumtitum]

MYA the routine you described For your little one sounds very much like mine! (5.5 months) Think we've both posted on the same sleep threads before. Our night time sleep has improved recently but this isn't due to any improvement in day time naps! I'm lucky if she manages 2 hours of naps during the day. Today she had 45 mins this morning and 45 mins at lunchtime and I'm trying to get her to have a catnap now before bed but it's been 40 mins and she's not asleep yet! she's definitely tired, like yours she gets tired after about 2 hours, but just hates to sleep! Some random days she'll have a catch up, a few days ago she had 1.5 hours in the morning and. 2.5 hours in the afternoon - this is a record I think!!! She is also a very happy baby and virtually never cries at anything so I genuinely think she's doing ok on less sleep even though she "should" be having much more!! I hope the nights get better for you soon then hopefully you can stop stressing so much about the day time naps (wish I could follow my own advice as I still get really stressed when she wont nap in the day as I'm convinced her night sleep might go to shit again!! ;) )

[Zaurak]

I had some good advice on here to start with daytime naps. It's not made it perfect t but it has helped.
I started with the 2,3,4 thing , ie when they first wake put them down 2 hours later, then 3, then bed after 4 hours from last wake up. I started with the morning nap and did anything to get him to sleep. Pram, rocking, lying down with him and bunging the boob in as soon as he stirred...anything. Then started that with afternoon nap too.

It helped a tiny bit. It's really tough

[Tumtitum]

Zaurak what age did you start the 2/3/4 thing? DD definitely needs her first nap after two hours but I'm wondering if she could do with longer between naps... My fear with her always is that it takes her so bloody long to go to sleep that if I allow 4 hours before bed she could well end up going to bed at some ridiculous hour!!!

[Zaurak]

Hmmm... About seven months but could have done it earlier I think. His sleep deteriorated badly at six months , maybe I should have done it then!
The aim is for them to be asleep after 2,3,4 so if it's taking an hour to get them to bed then they need less awake time. We tried it and what we have now kind of grew out of it. Putting the naps at set times for two weeks helped as well. We just births bullet and didn't go anywhere we couldn't get home/out for a walk for naptime. Worth it in my opinion! His current schedule is:

04-05:30 wake (he wakes constantly so before then I try to resettle him. Once he's properly awake there's no point though .) milk whenever he wants it
08:00 nap, wakes a lot but gets resettled until he's had 90 mins
Lunch about 12
Nap at 13:00 ish, again, I resettle him till he's has 90 mins
Snack
Tea at 5:30, bath at 6-6:30, in bed between 6:30-7 depending on how tired he is.

We dont watch much tv but it's on now and again. Mainly non kid stuff but definitely no cartoons after mid afternoon. They're like kid heroin... Great for a ten minute distraction when you need to cook or clean though!

We've noticed that teething wrecks his sleep, as does any sort of new skill. He had five teeth through at once and that week was hellish. He's just learned to crawl at 9 months and that's definitely made him more tired - he's physically tired out which is great.

Six months was a really low point for us sleep wise. There's a lot going on just them I think. Hang on in there and do what you can. But as pps say, there's often not much you can do.

[Tumtitum]

Thanks zaurak I may try this 2/3/4 malarkey! I've been trying to do naps at 9/12/4 for the last two weeks and trying to resettle but it hasn't been entirely successful

[Zaurak]

4 is probably a bit late in the day. At around 6 mo ours went down to two naps. Try it for a few days and see what happens. I try to get him having a good 4 hour stretch before bedtime, although of course if he's grumpy and shattered I let him have just a quick catnap,

There are no magic solutions for bad sleepers (alas!) but it's worth trying stuff - even a bit more sleep helps. Good luck!

[Tumtitum]

Trouble is she's such a cat napper if she doesn't have more than two naps she gets hardly any day time sleep! We had a crap night last night, up wide awake and crying for ages for no fathomable reason, just going down for her first nap now (up since 6.30 and getting cranky) but will probably be 40 mins, if i can get her down!! ;) say for arguments sake she sleeps until 10 then 3 hours would be 1, she'll then wake at 2 and from then until bedtime is 5 hours unless I try to have her asleep for 6 but would that be hideously early?? We're staying with in laws at the moment and they already think that I'm the sleep police!!!

[Fomalhaut]

I often have him in bed just after six - they're tiny at that age. If they're tired they're tired. Try it :)

[MYA2016]

Thanks again for the advice it's good to know what's worked. I'm trying the 234 thing. I have the 4 bit down to a tee it's the rest I struggle with because like tumtitum ds often Catnaps so then i have to add in a lunch nap. I always make sure he's awake from last nap by 3.30 ready for bed at 7/7.30 as he goes down a lot easier.

It's the days get wakes at 6 and then will have a 30 mins morning nap that screw me over!

Anyway guess what last night he slept all night on his own in his cot in his room and only woke once

This was a major achievement and probably also a one off, but I did nothing different to normal!

[Tumtitum]

That's brilliant MYA!! You never know... DDs first night in her own room she only woke once, then had a few nights when she woke 2/3 times then went back to once and had a good stretch until last night! We are away tho and I think there may be some teething action too. Due to cat naps DD has had 3 naps today but awake around 3.30 so we'll see what happens this evening...

[Jayfee]

Brilliant..hope it keeps happening now!

[Zaurak]

Wohooo! Nice one!

Long may it continue....

[MYA2016]

My good night didn't last. It's got progressively worse and last night he went to bed at 7.30 and was up every hour after 9 pm. I fed him at 12am and 3.30am but he still was waking, even at 1.30 am when I know we he couldn't be hungry.

I am so fed up I could cry. He's been up since 5.30am. I am now seriously considering somega kind of sleep training as us going in to him to help resettle s clearly not helping.

Anyone got any advice on what would potentially work in this situation?

We live in a semi detached house and nobody has lived there since April 2015 as the house as been renovated. The new owners move in in less than 2 weeks and I'm absolutely panicking that they'll be complaining all the time about the constant night crying so I'm feeling I need to try and sort this sooner rather than later!

To add, since last posting on this thread we've tried white noise but it had no effect

[LapinR0se]

Oh shame. What happens when he wakes up?

[puglife15]

I've got the same here. Shit nights waking every 1-2 hours and shit naps, max 30 mins and usually involving a lot of screaming.

I think he's overtired but don't know what I can do to combat it. Sling, buggy, white noise, Dummy don't work. Maybe 50% of the time, feeding him CONSTANTLY without letting boob out and cuddling will work and stretch nap to maybe 1 hr 30. But is utterly impractical with a 3 year old to entertain.

It's making me really unhappy tbh. I am so jealous of those who just put their babies down and they nap. I'm fucking exhausted and sick of the screaming.

[Jayfee]

It's a long time ago for me, but Helens post seems to chime with me. I will share some memories. I had to keep my baby awake late afternoon/ early evening most times. I had to give a formula bottle just for the last feed as my breast milk would be less by the end of the day . I wasn't aware the baby was hungry as she would still keep sucking then nod off, then wake later as she was hungry. Burping was important as trapped wind makes baby restless. Calpol when teething. My husband just reminded me that we also had a musical duck that played lullabye and goodnight which we would sit outside the nursery
and keep playing till she nodded nodded off.