14 week old who wakes at 4am every morning - how can i break this habit?

[issywoo]

my 14 week old ds has never slept 11pm-7am , he always wakes at 4am-ish and up until 9 days ago he would wake at this time for a feed. the feeding has now stopped but he still wakes so i go in and put the dummy in and he sleeps for 15 mins then cries and i go in again and do the same (this can go on and on) and he may then sleep until 6.30am. when he wakes at 4am i leave him to see if he'll go back to sleep but he doesn't so when he starts crying thats when i go in so that dd (aged 3)doesn't get woken up. my boy weighs 15lbs and has about 5 x 6-7oz bottles (although its a struggle to feed him at the 11pm feed as he's in such a deep sleep so only takes about 4oz)but doesn't seem like he especially likes his bottles and he certainly knows when he's had enough. i have tried him on sma (constipated), prescribed Enfamil (sick and constipated), aptimil (snotty and wouldn't burp) and now nanny which he seems to like but he poos about 4 times a day and he's so precious that he cries until you change him. the nanny costs about £8 every 2 days so i'm not sure we can afford it so should i try farleys? he has hidden reflux (he's on gaviscon)all i want is for him to feel comfortable and enjoy his milk - oh, and sleep from 11pm - 6-ish!!! what can i try? his room is dark and he sleeps in a sleeping bag. i am so run down i am permanently unwell with sore throats and rashes so i'm desperate for help

how about leaving the 11pm feed, seeing as its a stryggle to feed him. then feed him at 4am if he wants it then, maybe he'll go back to sleep then. I'm a bit concerned about how often u have changed his milk. i thought advice was to change it as little as possible. what sma did u try? what is a hidden reflux (my dd reflux isnt hidden,) and how often are u giving the gaviscon. dd would drink her milk happily but then vomit it across the room.

Hi Issywoo ...
I too am wondering about how often you have had to change the formula. What does your HV say? (Not that I am a fan of HVs ... but yours might be a good one!)
My DD (18 weeks) also wakes at 4ish, not for a feed anymore but for her dummy ... We had a few weeks of her sleeping from 11pm till 7am but she started waking at 4 again about 3 weeks ago. I fed her then for a few days but got fed up with the fact that she wasn't hungry in the morning after feeding in the night so I now just go in and give her the dummy. She also drops it after about 15 minutes and then I have to go in again but usually she will go off then until 7am. So she is identical to your DS really.
I don't know what the solution is ... I am just hoping that one day she won't call for the dummy and she will find it herself.
Someone did say to me the other day that we could go cold turkey with the dummy and it would be a couple of nights of crying but I haven't got the heart at the moment and I know that it will wake DS ... (besides I think she is too young still for CC)
So ... if anyone comes up with a solution then I would be happy to know about it too ...

Issywoo, I am in exactly the same situation ds used to sleep from 10.30- 6 but for the last few weeks has been doing the same as you baby. It is killing me as I know he is fed really well during the day so I know he isn't hungry, he too has a dummy that I pop in and he used to go back to sleep but he won't now and expects a feed if he wakes up completely. I try to ignore him and try to avoid this as I too have ds aged 4 and am desperate for him not to wake up. Have tried water but it doesn't work. He isn't hungry it is a habit I think. I was coming on mumsnet today to post exactly the same thing again. It is frustrating because I know he has done it before.
I have left him and not woke him at 10.30 but he will wake at 4 and scream because he is so hungry and I have to give him almost a full feed. If I dream feed him at 10.30 he still wakes around 3.45-4 a.m. I too am desperate for help pleeeeaaassssseeee.

My main question is, Does anyone think it is better that I leave him to sleep from 7-4 and feed him at 4 or dreamfeed him at 10.30 for him to wake at 4 not for a feed but a battle will commence to get him back to sleep till 5 or sometimes 5.30.

Personally I've never been a fan of the 'dream feed', it seems to me that to wake a nicely slumbering digestive system with something it might not need at that moment is kind of unnatural. But I know a lot of people swear by it. However, the point of a dream feed is to push them through the night until the morning and if it's not working then it can't do any harm to cut that out and see if anything changes. With my dd (now 20 months) I fed her in the early hours whenever / if ever she wanted it, that way we all got some sleep and if they've gone without milk at your ds' age from 7-4 then it seems justified to give them a drink. Especially at only 14 weeks old - a 9-hour stretch isn't half bad you know.

In terms of milk, I b/f dd but when I introduced formula when I went back to work she had a dairy allergy and I used goat's formula but I got it on prescription from the gp - it is expensive, any chance you can do that issywoo?

If he goes from 7-4 I will without a shadow of a doubt give him a full bottle I always do. I will never let him go hungry if he has slept that long because I know he is hungry. What I may do is leave him to sleep through till 4 then give him a smaller feed at 4 and then a full feed at 7.30. But I understand exactly how you feel Issywoo especially if you have another child that you don't want disturbed at night time. And believe me my ds1 has been woken on a number of occassions.

thanks for all your messages, its nice to know i'm not alone in experiencing this, although that doesn't mean to say i'm pleased you're in the same boat as me!
i know changing the milk as often as i have is wrong but i have done it out of desperation because it broke my heart to see ds scream in pain when he pooed while on sma and the violent lurching from the hidden reflux (that reflux which results in painful acid and not necessarily vomiting)has often ended up with him headbutting me and then screaming because he hurt himself. i was prescribed the enfamil for the reflux but that gave him rock hard poos and he did vomit and the aptimil i think he liked but again the lurching started and he couldn't breathe at night from all the mucous coming down his nose. the nanny seems to suit him the best so far so i hope not to have to change it but if the doc won't prescribe it the £7.95 every 2 days is a bit much for us.............
i have tried not waking ds at 11pm but he still wakes at 4am and then wants a full feed and then only a small one at 7am so i don't think i should cut out the 11pm just yet as he's taking a nice big feed at 7am.
have my fingers crossed for tonight but will keep you updated

Hi Moosh,

My d is 16 weeks old and she usually sleeps 7pm - 4/5/am. Because that is so long I happily give her a 6oz feed. She then goes back down till 7/8ish and then I give her another full feed.

I'm just grateful that she sleeps for that long. Obviously I would love her not to wake for that 4am feed, but at the moment shes so little - Im hoping shell sleep through when on solids.

Hi Issywoo and all other mums that have bubs waking early. My boy (17 weeks) is doing the exact same thing and nothing I've tried has worked to date. After talking with other mums I'm told to 'go with the flow'! My boy was sleeping thru from 7pm til 6.30ish from about 9/10 weeks and it's slowly coming forward and he's now waking around 3.30/4pm. Doesn't matter whether he takes 150ml or 260ml he'll still wake. Have tried rice cereal too. I don't think it's dummy because he sleeps thru til 4ish. I could probably give him his dummy and get another hour but I think he's obviously waking due to hunger so may aswell feed him. Sometimes he goes back to sleep but when you go in and he's smiling at you, you know he's starting his day. Can hardly blame he as he's slept for 9ish hours. Oh well. Will just have to get some sleep in the arvo when he's down and hope that it's just a faze! We tried cc but you're still awake anyway and I'd rather replace a dummy or rock him than lie awake whilst he cries. Then again, he really does need to learn that it's still nighttime and getting up before 5.30/6 is not on. I just don't want him to start a habit of this. If anyone has a 'magic' cure for this 4am wakeup call please let me know!!! xx

PS, Babe is still swaddled and dummy to sleep - best to go cold turkey on both? Just don't want to have a big drama when he'd older. Have tried unswaddled and dummy but he just knocks it out and then there's tears. Any suggestions?

last night ds slept from 7-10.45 then had a dream feed and then went from 11.30 thru to 7am!!!! am not celebrating just yet - could be a fluke.
the things i changed are:
moved him onto nanny formula which i think is more comfortable for him, fed him at 6.15pm rather than 6.45 when he's too tired,blacked out the room, slept in the same room as him, tilted his mattress. maybe none of these factors were the cause so we'll see what happens tonight.
leeksy, have you tried baby rice towards the even rather than at 11am- ish - sounds like he might be waking coz he's hungry for solids?
good luck all you 4am-ers

We have had a bit of a result too issywoo ...
DD has woken for her dummy but at about 1am ... and then has gone off until 7.30 for the last two mornings ... that is better than 4am I think because there is no way she can be hungry at 1am after all the milk I have stuffed into her during the day (and baby rice at 6.15pm!!!).
Do you think they are reading this thread ?

Well done you 4 am mums and babies. Mine did ok last night still woke at 3.45 but did go straight back to sleep once I gave him his dummy and then woke at 6 for a bottle. Shocking as I thought the heat would make him feel uncomfotrable. I have put him on a heavier formula Aptamil Extra hoping that this will help a little as he is definately hungier but am reluctant to wean him yet. It has only been 2 days so will inform if it has helped him. Happy sleepin(wink)

Sorry didn't want to actually write wink wanted to do a "winking" face, but didn't happen!!

well, the boy slept until 6am this morning but i reckon we're in for a bad night tonight. he had his 1st set of jabs today and spent the afternoon and early evening screaming. i think he hated the heat too which makes me feel really c**p bearing in mind we're off to spain on saturday. he's gonna hate me....................

Well, it's gone pear shaped now ...
DD has a rotten cold and I was up every 40 minutes until 3.30 when I gave her a weeny feed (she didn't really want it) and some Calpol and then fell asleep exhausted unitil I had to get her up at 7.45am to feed her and get her dressed so that I could take DS to Kindy.
DH got up at 6am for a run and DS woke at 6.20am ... so I have not had much sleep and I feel terrible
Hopefully tonight will be better
Hope your DS doesn't suffer too much from his jabs issy ...

Issywoo

just wondering about formula...my daughter used to get constipated very easily. Now, I know this sounds odd, but SMA ready prepared ie liquid formula was FINE whereas powder milk that we made up with 'scientific' precision made her constipated! Have you tried the ready made stuff? It was very mysterious but we could never get her onto any powder formula cos the same problem came back - she's two now and fine! Also, babypots used to constipate her too - and we used babyorganix which are great normally. When I started doing all her food myself, it was fine - just in case you find this too!! And that was with extra fruit as well.

all strange

hope your sleep dilemma gets sorted

Jxxx

you are all so lucky....i am a walking zombie at the moment....ds2 is 17 weeks and is awake from 1am every morning crying, has 3 bottle between then and 7 am then crashes for an hour, and i have to get up with my other 2 children........i am physically and mentally exhausted. He has a bottle about 8pm and sleeps til then til 1. He is on 2 solid meals a day and takes about 8-9 x 7oz bottle in 24 hours. Anyone got any ideas?! I NEED SLEEP!!!!!

Am IU stupid? Wot is ds1 dd1 dd etc??

oh busybee, I feel for you...things were similar but not quite so awful with ds until a few days ago, now he seems to have turned a corner and after his feed between about 12-1.00 he now only needs settling a few times until breakfast about 5am followed by start of day for dd at 6am. he is 22 weeks and the really bad time started when he was about 17 weeks ish. So if your ds is the same you may have another couple of weeks . All I can suggest is that you go to bed when your other children do, which is hopefully round about 8pm as well. Can your dp put ds to bed? Can he get up with the other children some of the time, eg at the weekend? How old are your others, are they at school so you can nap in the day at all, and if not, can you get anyone to have them in the day for a bit? Good luck.

Timo - ds = dearest son
dd1=dearest daughter1 ie eldest daughter
ds2 = younger son or second son
dp/dh= dearest partner/husband
etc

Hi again. I've spoken to a few sleep experts and they seem to think the early morning waking is due to the daytime routine. Must admit over the past couple of weeks my boy is snacking rather than taking 4-5 big feeds. Apparently bubs around this age (16-17 weeks) can go for around 4 hours inbetween feeds. I think I was stuck in the newborn routine of feeding everytime he woke up and therefore just topping up. So, for the last two days I've been spacing the feeds around 3.5-4 hours and he has sleep til 5am which is an improvement from the 3.30-4.00. So, perhaps if you look at his daytime feeds this may help your early morning wakings. Although they take a big feed around 6.30pm before bedtime, it's not enough to get them thru past 4am if they've not chocked up during the day. Anyway, hope this may help. I've been told it's not a sleep problem, it's a feeding issue. Personally, if they've slept that long anytime after 4.00am is a genuine hunger need and perhaps I shouldn't be so selfish about sleep and go feed my bub who's obviously hungry. I'm sure he'll extend himself at some stage x

PS Thanks for the tip, tried the baby rice, am using it to space out feeds so he takes a good solid one every 4 hours.

O.K ladies, my dd is obviously feeling left out now (she must've read this thread!) as now when she wakes at 4am she is wanting to stay up!

Gone is the angel who would down 6oz and then straight back to sleep till 7am. In her place is the wide awake girl who only has 3 oz of milk , sings till 5/6 am, dozes till 7ish, and will then only drink another 3oz.

I'm thinking she's not really hungry at 4am and this feed is interfering with her 7am feed. Will try to start offering just water and cuddles.

I'll be thinking of you all at 4am tomorrow morning

I have to join you all. DD is 19 weeks and goes down at 7pm then wakes at 11.30, 2ish and 5ish then often wakes for the day at 6. Its such hard work especially this week when I've been ill and she won't settle for dh- she just fights him until she's wide awake. I know this won't help any of you, but I can sympathise!

P.S shes on at least 4 breast feeds a say plus 2/3 solid feeds so it shouldn't be hunger?!

Mine still being a fidgit bum at 3.30-4a.m. am increasing another daytime bottle to try and push him through. So his biggest bottles will be his 7a.m. and his 7p.m. Wish us luck.

hello, i have a 16 week old boy and he has a feed at 7pm before i put him to bed he doesn't however get up until 4am but once i put him down he is hungry again he gets up at 6am then 10am. It's as if he has to have feeds because of him sleeping for so long, however he does after his 10am go to sleep until 2pm then sleeps until 6pm i then give him a bath give him his last feed and put him to bed and he sleeps. I have been trying to give him 5 feeds a day as he is drinking 150mls 5oz which i think is right for that amount. If anyone knows how i can make him go a bit longer of a morning please let me know.

I havent read all these as there is so many but id just like to say I chgd my ds1 to OMNEO comfort ny C&G.Diff baby.
Call C&G they r great.