4 year old DS not sleeping - please help, end of tether reached

[MrsWednesday]

I really, really need some advice from the wise women of mumsnet.

DS1 is 4 and over the last few months has started waking up in the night. He comes into our bedroom then refuses to go back to his bed, claiming he's scared of various things (the wind, the rain, his duvet (?) etc etc). He starts screeching if we try and tell him to go back to sleep, and this can continue for hours on end. Me, DH and DS2 are all completely exhausted, and I wouldn't be surprised if the neighbours are suffering too - he's so loud.

We have tried to resolve all of his problems: we've moved him from his attic bedroom into a quieter room away from all the weather noise. DS2 now shares his bedroom (one of his complaints was that he didn't want to be on his own). We leave lights on. Every time we do something, he comes up with some other reason for his getting up.

I really need a plan on how to deal with this. We've tried star charts. Telling him off, no telly etc. Giving cuddles, getting into bed with him, DH even slept outside his bedroom door last night, but if we do stuff like this he expects it every night - it's not resolving the fundamental problem either. I don't think it's night terrors because he is fully conscious and is aware of what he's doing, and remembers everything the next morning too.

Can anyone help? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease. It's really getting me down, I'm so tired and starting to get resentful of DS1, me and DH are arguing because we're so tired...you get the picture.

Bumping myself. Any ideas?

hi MrsW. DD1 went through a stage of waking in the night due to lions in her bedrooms, and was adament they were there! One of the things we did was to let her cover her bedroom floor in fairydust (glitter in a mesh bag!) and from then on the lions visited no more!!

Can i ask what happends is DS2 wakes? does he get brought into your bed? just a thought that DS1 might be jealous, we had this problem too, until one night we decide to leave DD2 scream in the roomm with DD1 she soon woke up and said take her away i'm trying to sleep!!!

I do empathsize (sp) with you, we have just had the first couple of nights in about 12 months of both girls sleeping through.

Cheers Katz. I will try and think of something imaginative like that to put his mind at rest. He does shift the goalposts though, so whatever problem we resolve, he comes up with another one.

DS2 rarely wakes, and if he does I don't bring him into our bed, just give him his dummy and a drink of water.

Have ordered a sleep problems book from Amazon so will report back once I've read it...

Hi Mrs W, I can sympathise because DS (just 4) was going through this from mid-December until last week - a lot of his fears were to do with Father Christmas!

Two things have helped and I know they will both sound crackers but bear with me!

A good friend sent him an Amazonian worry doll who sleeps under his pillow and catches his worries and bad dreams. I think the whole thing of the parcel arriving with a note saying she had come to get rid of the scary things really helped. Perhaps a friend or family member could do this?

Also, he has started taking his new bin lorry (!!) up to bed so that it can "crunch up the bad dreams" and this seems to be a big comfort. Perhaps your son has a digger or truck which could do the same??? Or perhaps we are all nuts in this house!

sounds perfectly sane to me! in addition to the fairy dusting ritual! the buterflies painted on her walls also have glittery wings which the helps to drop nice dreams in her head! so the fairy dust attracts the fairies who stop the lions coming in her room because lions are scared of fairies! and the butterflies supply the happy dreams.

I know other children which dream catchers work for too, and he can make it himself, couple of sticks, we've used chopsticks before and some string/wool wrapped round.

hi katz, I love the fairydust idea!
Mrs W, Oxfam shops usually have the worry dolls

its crazy! and a really pain to hoover up but then your left with a slightly sparkly carpet which helps to maintain the myth! plus we have once or twice had to reapply the fairy dust, fingers crossed that it still works!

Funnily enough, DS1 seemed to improve just before Christmas but it started again on Christmas Night - perhaps the idea of some strange man creeping around his bedroom disturbed him?

Not nuts at all Ediemay, thanks very much. Will have to get thinking (imagination sadly lacking because of sleep deprivation...)

good luck with it all. Off to make fairydust!

Or you can do what I did with Ds when he started this - let him into our bed. Now DH is in spare room and DS sleeps with me - DS is now 5.5!!!!

(Actually he doesn't snore so am keeping the status quo!!!)

MrsW, sounds horrific Is there anything I can do, would it help if ds1 came to spend a night here? I wonder if that might upset him more, though, to feel punished? He could spend some quality time with the red car before we sell it!

Does it make any difference how tired he is, i.e. if he's been racing around in the fresh air all afternoon (tricky at this time of year) will he conk out?

I'm surprised you haven't heard the ruckus down in your neck of the woods Trib. Thanks very much for the kind offer but I daren't inflict him on anyone else at the moment (even the in-laws have withdrawn their babysitting offer). Even if he's up most of the night before, he's still the same the next night. He is functioning much better on no sleep than me and DH are!

Hmm, have to say the idea of a night without beery bloke farts is definitely appealing

I think the in-laws are being a bit defeatist, MrsW. I bet you he wouldn't do it if he were there? Worth a try. They can always catch up on sleep the next day

Oh dear Mrs W.
Just thought I would give this a bit of a bump for you.
No bright ideas from me I am afraid, though I have picked some up thank you ladies.
You must be exhausted!

my friend went thru something like this and in the end it was just a power struggle. We're talking she screamed etc for up to 4hours etc etc etc.

I think they warned the neighbours, lay down the ground rules. Stairgated the top of the stairs and camped out downstairs. When she realised they meant it it stopped completely. Also rewarded her with a day trip for 10 nights in her own bed not getting up at all.

Don't know how you work out whether there is a fear problem or a power problem though. She used every excuse in the book too.

Strength, determination and imagination required to defeat this then! Arrgh.

Thanks so much for all your help, it is very much appreciated.

Actually the other story I would add is my mum's "Chicken Shed" story. Some friends of hers were having awful sleep problems with their dd (she claims at 18 months but now being in possession of a 19-month-old, I'm hoping closer towards 4!) who was waking every night.

Eventually the dad said "dd, we can't take it any more. If you wake up tomorrow night we are going to make you sleep in the chicken shed with the chickens". It worked - she slept through (allegedly) from that day on (she is now 20 so sleeping not such an issue!)

Obviously the problem with this is that had it not worked they would have been obliged to put her in the chicken shed in some way, just as well it didn't come to it.

MrsW, I am seriously offering to have ds1 for one night - it will give you a break if nothing else, and I genuinely believe he won't act out in the same way in someone else's house. Just a thought.

Trib, you are too kind. Thanks very much for the offer. If it all gets too much for me, I might come and sleep at your house and leave DH and the DSs to it!

Might try the shed threat if all else fails...

Well now you are welcome any day of the week due to your 'not waking in the night' tendencies In fact you can wake up if you like, and indeed watch DVDs, it's all good!